F430 - AC Woes | FerrariChat

F430 - AC Woes

Discussion in '360/430' started by qzi, Mar 22, 2021.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    Hi guys,

    I've owned my 2005 F430 coupe for about 9 months now. While it drives perfectly the A/C has been a bit of a nightmare and has definitely impacted the otherwise wonderful ownership experience. When I first got the car, it was clear that the AC was not functioning normally as it just blew ambient air no matter what settings I had it on (I know about the strange position of the AC button in the ON position).

    First step was to recharge the refrigerant, and the result was that it would blow cold air for about 30 seconds every 10-15 minutes. After further investigation by my garage, it was diagnosed that the compressor was on its last legs and there was also some debris found in the refrigerant hoses. I went ahead and replaced the compressor as well as the associated hoses, did a full flush of the system and recharged it. This was 3 weeks ago and things were fine up till this past weekend. When I went for a drive yesterday it would only blow ambient air again, and it's pretty clear that there is still a leak somewhere in the system. My mechanic believes that the only remaining culprit is the evaporator unit.

    I've checked on Eurospares/Ricambi and the evaporator unit is eye wateringly expensive. So my question is, are there any alternatives? Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

    Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any assistance!

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  2. craze

    craze Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2021
    1,026
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Michael
    If they diagnose as correct then its the evaporator

    Have they used a dye to confirm?
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    I find it very hard to believe the evap is the cause , have you checked the condenser as may be stone damage and they are not an expensive item.
    Are they using a gas detector to check for leaks or one of those electronic devices( bit hit and miss)
    Can they draw a vacuum on the system and how long will it hold it.
    Is the shaft seal of the new compressor gas tight, have you checked it running and when stopped
    What pressure when stopped for an hour and what suct and discharge when running
     
    flash32 and Texas Forever like this.
  4. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    A dye was used and pointed to a leak at one of the hose connections therefore all hoses were replaced. I was told full access to the evaporator unit involved a lot of work so it was not easy to see if there were any leaks deep within the unit itself. We were hoping that the replaced hoses would do the job, but unfortunately it didn’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    I don’t have the vacuum figures but I’ll try to find out. I forgot to mention that the condenser was also replaced together with the hoses and compressor. I’ll ask my mechanic to double check the seals but I’m fairly sure that he has been through those already.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    If the system is evacuated and not leaking it should hold that vacuum, the dye will show leaks but a flame sniffer detector is the best- they used them on the old freon 12+22, so i assume they work on the modern gases but i have not worked on these. I just dont see how you would put a hole in the evaporator, unless someone has been drilling holes to fit something.
     
  7. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Did they also replace the dryer when the compressor was swapped? What does your exterior temperature sensor display?
     
  8. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    Yes, the dryer is new too (I’ve forgotten how much money I’ve actually thrown at the problem already ). The external temperature is reading fine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Does the documentation detail the type & oz.of PAG oil and number of grams of 134a installed?
     
  10. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    No it doesn’t but I’m quite sure it’d be to OEM spec as my mechanic is quite fastidious.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. ItalGerBrit

    ItalGerBrit Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    804
    S La
    Another thought regarding the evaporator. The casing of the evaporator should have a drain hose and there might be a tell tale dye stain on the end of the hose. Or, a sniffer will find the leak at that same drain hose. As mentioned by Mike 32, if a vac is drawn, it should be obvious that there is a leak if it does not hold the vacuum.
    Mike32 and I are thinking alike. If the system was flushed to remove debris in the system, the hoses should be clear so why replace them? If debris was in the system, then the expansion valve might be screwed up. Does not take much to plug up the tiny orifice in the expansion valve. I assume that the expansion valve was replaced since the mentioned debris in hoses? You may have more than one problem. All you can do is put on the gauges, read the pressures, check the diagnostic charts, and look for the leaks until you find them. New compressor, dryer, hoses. Only expansion valve, evaporator, and condenser left.
    Years ago, I got fed up with chasing A/C problems(not in Ferrari) and bought a set of gauges, Robinair Vac machine, dye kit, sniffer and read everything I could about it and realized that it is a very simple system. If all the components were easy to see and access, very easy to diagnose and fix, but an auto A/C system is like a long snake stretched out hiding in tiny and hard to get at spaces. A leaky evaporator is the absolute worst thing that you want to leak. A PIA to dig that thing out. Your tech is correct about pulling the evaporator being a nightmare and therefore very expensive.
     
  12. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    Thanks for the detailed reply. I guess I will invest in a sniffer kit to eliminate as many possibilities as possible before pulling the evaporator. This is so frustrating...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    When you have a compressor failure and bits of the unit get into the gas lines, it generally gets as far as the drier. In the inlet to the drier there is a superfine screen which prevents this rubbish getting into the drier beads and furthur down the line to the expansion valve inlet. I have seen a lot of ac failures but never a blocked expansion valve. Might be worth checking that the drive belt is not too tight on the pulley- i am wondering if the shaft seal is leaking when it is running. You can have too much strain on the bearings
    Any chance it is set too low and it is freezing up in the evaporator, this would happen if the thermostat was not working- but eventually it would cut the compressor out on low pressure. Buy a bag of ice cubes if you get warm
     
  14. ItalGerBrit

    ItalGerBrit Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    804
    S La
    Just learned something about the dryer catching the debris so little risk of expansion valve blockage. I feel the OPs pain. A/C problems can be a long drawn out hassle.
     
  15. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Buy a set of AC gauges from harbor freight or take to any AC shop. Need to check the low/high side readings.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Years ago when i worked on Tankers, we had a blocked drier on the ships deep freeze room holding all the food, as we did not have a spare we removed the drier and cut the top off with a junior hacksaw, cleaned out the fine screen and then used AG 60 silver solder to weld the top back on. Worked fine when we cleaned the inlet screen.
     
  17. Felix Yuen

    Felix Yuen Karting

    Sep 3, 2018
    124
    Full Name:
    Felix Yuen
    hes in hong kong .... no harbor freight there
     
  18. Felix Yuen

    Felix Yuen Karting

    Sep 3, 2018
    124
    Full Name:
    Felix Yuen
    did your problem get fixed
    i have similar situation too
     
  19. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Ah well harbor freight tools are kinda hit or miss anyways. (looks at HF tool scar)
     
    armedferret likes this.
  20. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You need to be 100% sure the system is holding charge. Recover the refrigerant then pull a vacuum for at minimum 20 minutes. Close the valves and let the car sit for at least 4 hours with gauges attached. Monitor the low and high side. Any loss of vacuum indicates a leak. If minor..a stop leak injected into the system may be a good repair..I have used it with great success many times. However if you lose vacuum within the first 5 minutes..no amount of stop leak will fix that.

    Have the car charged with nitrogen. Then with proper tools the leak can be found.

    If you find the car is indeed sealed nice and tight..its time to look into the high and low side switches and the interior temp sensor..which is that little grill to the right of the steering wheel. Behined it is a little motor and fan. That guy craps out and you will get zero a/c. It's quite a common issue.
     
  21. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    Still unresolved. I’ve decided to replace the evaporator as my mechanic could not find the source of the leak anywhere else in the system. Will report back once it’s completed…


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. gsworld2014

    gsworld2014 Formula 3

    Dec 23, 2014
    1,061
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    Greg S
    Did you replace the dryer filter?
     
  23. qzi

    qzi Rookie

    Dec 28, 2005
    10
    Hong Kong
    Yes I did
     
    gsworld2014 likes this.
  24. Felix Yuen

    Felix Yuen Karting

    Sep 3, 2018
    124
    Full Name:
    Felix Yuen
    does anyone have electrical diagram related to the entire AC system ... my compressor doesnt turn on :(
     
  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Me! Well, I have a diagram for the 430 Scuderia (thanks to fellow FerrariChatter, Dominick), but I'm not sure how close they are to the standard F430 (or whichever car you have).

    I converted his OEM Ferrari diagrams into a single huge diagram which may freak you out.

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/kTw6OsfJ2ZEWOIPZ

    Start in the bottom left hand corner at the compressor ("M025") and work backwards towards the relay.

    The original diagrams have a huge number of errors. I've done my best to sort them out, but there are no guarantees.

    You might pick up some diagnostic tips in this F360 aircon message thread....

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147938440/

    The F430 has similar pressure switches.
     

Share This Page