308-328 Mobil #1 and a Zinc additive?

I too live in SoCal and use 15/50

 

Has anyone uses Amsoil? I’ve heard so much good things about it but I couldn’t find any application for the 308.

 

No racing oil is suited for our vintage cars, as no racing oils is not designed to last for a long time and force you to change it often: no more than a year (better: six months), whatever mileage you do. Much better taking a standard oil, full synth of course, that can last two years.

The only think an oil cares about it's engine temperature and not enviromental temperature: if you push hard at 150 mph on a German motorway in winter, you will read on the oil gauge temperature much more degrees than driving at 50 mph on California city road during summer. So, to choose the correct oil, maybe better looking what the oil gauge says.

ciao

 

Nailed it.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

 

Just to add more confusion:

1. Even within the same brand, the ZDDP & Phosphorous content can vary by type and/or viscosity rating -- see the attached Mobil1 data sheet,

2. What is considered "high ZDDP" has changed over the years is my impression/recollection -- used to be ~1500 ppm, now more like ~1000 ppm.

Lately, I've been running a 50/50 mix of Mobil1 15W50 and Mobil1 10W40 High Mileage (or Mobil1 10W40 depending on what's available on the shelf at my Walmart ).

 

Steve I called Redline Oil about a year ago because I was concerned about how much ZDDP ppm it has as I have been using Redline 5w-50 for years with good results and they said the oil I am using has 1200 of ZDDP ppm which I think is not too bad.

 

Agree -- that's about as high as any other "high ZDDP" oil available today (unless going to one of the true "racing" oils).

 

The true test of any 3x8 ,when It comes to the oil, is how many miles were you able to drive your car with full capability , before you had to open the motor up and start to rebuild it, its that simple. Im at 102 K miles, and my test is , can I still pull 120 MPH in 4th gear at about 7850 RPMS, and so far I can , using 101 Octane .

Thank you

 

The test of the oil viscosity is simple - if it holds the required oil pressure at load/RPM, the viscosity is sufficient. If that requires 40WT oil, fine. If it requires 20wt oil, that's fine too. The W rating has no bearing at all at operating temp/oil pressure. IOW, straight 40, 0W40, 5W40, 10 W40 is the same oil as far as the engine is concerned when at operating temp.

Many new cars spec 0W20 oil!

 

308 Quattrovalvole and 328 have the cylinder liners with surface hardening coating (Nickasyl or like that) and Mahle pistons: the expexted durability is always 120-150 K miles (200-250 K km), whatever oil you use!

It's a completely different story with the carbed and 2Vi cars, that have the cast iron liners and Borgo pistons: 60-70 k miles (90-110K km) is the expected life, whatever oil you put into. Also valve seats (and valves) are worse.

Ciao

 

That is true Alberto ! to my knowledge Nikasil are a higher quality lining/plating on the all 4 valve edition engines I think from '83 with the 308 QV's, this was a huge improvement on Ferrari engines and also later models opted this.
Synth oils are the best to use, last much longer and whether it contains lower or higher ZDDP (Zinc & Phosphorous contents) is irrelevant, these engines does not have Cam lobes & hydraulic lifter faces ( flat tappet design)

 

That's correct: this "Zync hysteria" is a thing we don't care about here in Europe, as the 308 engine is a modern DOHC engine that doesn't require anything special about the zync (nor lead, nor octane booster and so on).

Ciao

 

FWIW, I had a 1968 Plymouth 340S Barracuda that I bought in 1973 and drove until 2006/sold it. I overhauled the engine and installed a mild cam, slightly heavier valve springs from stock the year I bought it. This was a real "Flat tappet" engine, totally unlike a 3x8.

From 1978 onward, the only oil I used in it was Mobil 1/NO additives.. No issues at all with cam/lifter wear over more than 100k miles that followed, including a trip from Memphis TN to Anchorage, AK via the Alaska Highway (back when the AK highway was virtually all gravel) and back 8 years later. Frankly, IMO, the entire cam issue is non-existent. I believe the tales of actual cam wear is a result of poor cam break in OR, the occasional issue with "soft" camshafts that have occurred from time to time with various suppliers. Re break-in, you can destroy a new cam in a few hundred miles if it is not broken in correctly upon first start-up after installation.

But, as we often agree - do what you are comfortable with; if you think you need ZDDP, buy oil that contains however much you think you need!

 

All oils are so much better today than years ago. As long as you are using a major brand synthetic oil with ZDDP (Zinc) and change it regularly you will be fine.

 

Here's the stuff that started it all. Remember Kendall GT-1? This is what my 328 wants. I have one unopened bottle, possibly the last on earth. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Personally I've used Mobil 1 fully synthetic 0W40 for at least the last 10 years . These days I think they call it "New Life"

I've had my cam covers off a couple of times in that time & its very clean in there. My car has done about 50K now

Happily they also sell it in Costco here relatively cheaply !

Also don't forget , where these cars originate from in Italy, it gets hotter 'n hell in the summer so the argument that places like So Cal are exceptional in that regard doesn't really hold either. As someone said above, the environmental conditions have much less to do with what your operating oil temperature will be than how you use the thing anyway & 3x8s were built with larking about in the mountains of Northern Italy in mind , which is hard work on the motor, it will get pretty warm going over those passes.

The viscosity of it when the engine is cold may vary though between a cold start at 30-40 degrees F & doing it at 90-100 degrees F (they get both in Italy!)

But in either case I really can't see what good a 20W oil does you over a 0W/5W or even 10W in terms of getting up & round the engine quickly, which is the primary thing you want from it on a cold start. The 20W signals that the stuff is much thicker when its cold, which would seem to be counter-productive.

The only reason to use it might be if you have wear in the motor. Even 30 & 40 years ago Ferrari were building to pretty good tolerances, you can't stick a red line out at 7800 rpm without doing so & so it shouldn't be necessary on a healthy engine.

 

I think the answer is we are only beginning to find out. Its a testament to how well they were built but we are starting to see quite a few 3X8s get over 100K and still running well with even more gettting north of 80K.

I don't really recall too many threads in here about worn out 3x8 motors needing a rebuild!

 

I grew up in CT, have read some 3x 8 s have gone to 180 k-200k, I had an RX7 with 225 k miles, so why not my 328 ? I think I could get to 200 without a re fresh.

Thank you

 

I understand that the lighter weight oil will circulate quicker on start up, Im not concerned with that, like I said, in So Cal, it does not get that cold, and for me , Im spoiled , I never have started my car in really cold weather, I dont even start it up unless its 70 degrees out anyways, so cold lubrication is not an issue for me, I would much rather have my 20/50 mineral, synthetic may last longer, it burns up in the combustion chamber , I change my oil every 3000 miles, and when I first had the car, for about 12 years, it was 2500 miles between oil changes, At one time, by accident a tech did my oil change at this shop with mobile one, it leaked, and it burned like a quart in 4000 miles, with mineral oil, my cars burns practically 0 in 3000 miles. I must be doing something right at 102 k miles and counting, my car with burn the s*** out of the tires through 3rd gear without a problem, its got plenty of power. 20/50 is going to protect my motor better than 10 / 40 when I drive my car in the hot weather,its that simple. especially when going around corners, and I done mean like grandma lol . The other op said the outside weather does not make a difference, I disagree, all you have to do is look at the oil temp when its 65 degess vs 85 to 110 degrees, I would rather have the 20/50 in the motor. keep in mind, I have been using this oil for 82,000 miles of my ownership, not a puff of smoke comes out the back.

Thank you

 

I don't want to bang a dead fish here,,

your owners manual disagree with the oil you use but it's probably fine, what mileage did your car have when you bought it and what did the pre-owner use, I'm just asking out of curiosity, I will stick with 5W40 Full Synth, that is what my pre-owner used, the most wear on the engine is at cold start does not matter how hot or cold you engine is, cold at first start-up and lower viscosity oil just makes more sense. I mean most sport car enthusiasts and even Porsche themselves recommend 0w40 or 5w40 because of initial - fast lubrication on start-up.

does your car smoke a little when revving or at cold-start ? if not I really don't see why you are using such a high viscosity oil, IMHO 20W50 is a very old oil in today's standards unless I drove for example a certain vintage model car which states/recommends to use mineral based 20W50 like for example Castrol GTX.

Ferrari here locally also recommends Shell Helix or Pennzoil 5W40 Full Synth for the Ferrari 328 and most guys that I know uses that without any oil burn problems usage problems or leaks.

 

Bought the car with 20k miles, dont know what the previous owner used. Not a puff of smoke on start New cars, such as Porsches , Ferraris use that 0 w / 40 full synthetic , same as my 15 GMC truck. In 89 , the full syn oils I dont think were as good as they are today, I know Ferrari knows best, I just have been using this 20/50 , and its been working for me , I think to the better over the long term . I also used 20/50 in my RX7 over my 13 years of ownership, 225k miles, no smoke .We all should keep an eye out for any guys on here with 3x8s and see if theyre are any rebuilds going on , how many miles, and what oil they have been using.

Thank you

 

Well I stuck to the recommend 5w40, I live in moderate to warmer climate so I will not use lighter than that, 10w40 will also be fine, the previous owner used a well known German oil Fuchs Titan Supersyn 5w40 which compares well to Shell Helix, I was lucky obtaining the same and I replace once a year, I only drive 1000 to 1500 miles max per year, to many toyz to drive but my 328 drives often atleast once in 2 weeks but mostly every week. No smoke, leaks or oil usage during one year cycle, it does use a half a pint over 1000miles but dipstick still measures above 3 quater mark so I don't even top-up.

I've done some oil flow rate comparison and on full temps w40 and w50 is very close, I see no problem using w50 oils but only the cold value (20w) that I don't agree with but that is just me...

Cheers

 

In my 328 I use the Mobil 1 0W-40 FS engineered for European cars.
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-fs-0w-40/

It has a higher zinc level

https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/media/project/wep/mobil/mobil-row-us-1/files/faqs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf?la=en&hash=B478EACF4BAC5D7B9A3D33763B53E67669592EE5

Sold at Wal-Mart too so easy to get.