458 Brake Fade on Track | Page 2 | FerrariChat

458 Brake Fade on Track

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Paul Tomey, Jul 13, 2020.

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  1. Manda racing

    Manda racing Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2015
    1,245
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Anybody remove parking brake pads for weekends only?
     
  2. Frank_C

    Frank_C F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2004
    2,612
    Whistling through the wheat field in Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank Cavallo
    You can not engage parking brake and turn off car. Doesn't matter for ceramics.
     
  3. Manda racing

    Manda racing Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2015
    1,245
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Okay- I’ve always thought my ceramic parking brake pads on my Scud are dragging. Different style system. Thanks
     
  4. PMiranda

    PMiranda Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2004
    574
    Austin, TX
    Is there an off-the-shelf solution for good brake cooling for the 458? Is the Speciale any better? (Although you can buy alot of sets of brakes for the cost difference, it's always helpful to have an excuse to upgrade)
    Or do people that track their cars more than once in a while proactively switch to iron rotors and track pads and don't worry about the heat?
     
  5. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Nothing to do with cooling, but the Surface Transform CCM are available for the 458 and they are supposed to be less subject to overheating than the Brembo brakes. I have yet to see how they perform since I just got them installed on my 488.
    Iron rotors will overheat even sooner, but they are dirt cheap compared to CCM, so replacing them is not an issue...
     
  6. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Surface Transform rotors are the real deal... I know on 991/911 Porsche’s the guys I run with are shaving a lot of time off due to constant brake pressure and awesome wear. The Porsche stock CCM rotors are much better than what Ferrari is using so a Ferrari will see even greater benefits from Surface Transform rotors. The CCM rotors Ferrari,is using are the same rotor exact spec that a 90k Corvette gets..interesting huh?
     
  7. PMiranda

    PMiranda Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2004
    574
    Austin, TX
    Thanks, I didn't know there was another option for carbon rotors!
     
  8. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    ST rotors are great. If you install them on a 458, use the Pagid RSC2 pads. A winning combination on both street and track.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. action-ant

    action-ant Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
    176
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Anthony
  10. MEGACHAD

    MEGACHAD Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 24, 2021
    144
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    CHAD AALDERS
    Brake cooling has a lot to do with it, but I would say that pad thickness is the most important thing to pay attention to. When on track you need deep pads so they don't transfer the heat to the fluid.
     
  11. MEGACHAD

    MEGACHAD Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 24, 2021
    144
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    CHAD AALDERS
    Anyone have any idea how long the Ceramics are good for for track use?
     
  12. Frank_C

    Frank_C F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2004
    2,612
    Whistling through the wheat field in Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank Cavallo
    Depends upon vehicle and lap times. I can run my GT3 RS hard and pads will last a season. I dropped 4 sec a lap at COTA in my 812 and they (brand new) pads lasted one weekend.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  13. MEGACHAD

    MEGACHAD Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 24, 2021
    144
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    CHAD AALDERS
    Im wondering more about the rotors and less about the pads.
     
  14. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    IIRC when Ferrari introduced the CCM brakes they proudly told they were good for 300 laps of Fiorano - if you do the math that's only about 1,000 km...
    Typically a track day is not as demanding, so I guess one could expect a few thousands km of track duty (I probably ran about 4,000 km with my 488, but some were on wet track, which is more brakes-friendly).
     
  15. MEGACHAD

    MEGACHAD Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 24, 2021
    144
    Full Name:
    CHAD AALDERS
    Makes sense.. Thank you. I have a hard time driving less than 10/10ths.. I think I'll swap to giro discs before heading to the track.

    Thank you
     
  16. carlovers2021

    carlovers2021 Karting

    Mar 25, 2021
    102
    Full Name:
    chandra siauw
  17. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    I finally had a chance to test the ST dics (together with Pagid RSC1 pads and metallic brake lines) on track and all performed very well.
    The track (Dijon Prenois) has only one single corner that's really demanding for the brakes - but this one is indeed very demanding (braking from 165 mph at the end of the straight); I did not experience any fading.
    The pads are almost dead though (they should still be OK for road use, specially with the kind of speed limits we have in France) and will need to be replaced before next track day.
     
    carlovers2021 likes this.
  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    Next time you have a longer track event, give the RSL1 pads a try.
     
  19. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    Had this happen to me yesterday at a track event. 15 minutes into the second 20 minute session, coming down the main straight at 155mph and braking for turn one and my pedal goes mush. Nothing happened but I overshot the turn and there was paved runoff which was good, everything was fine. Took it easy the following lap and the brake pedal just kept going to the floor — very scary.

    I was using stock pads, rotors, and brake fluid.

    This showed me how serious and deadly these brakes in the 458 are. I have another track event next week and need to immediately address this.

    I’m not going to change the rotors right now, but I will change the pads and brake fluid. I’ll be putting in Motil 660.

    Can anyone tell me the best possible brake pads available for use with the stock carbon rotors?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2017
    423
    I don't think the hardware is "deadly", you just weren't running the correct, track-oriented fluid on a 550hp, 3500lb car on track. The car also lacks brake cooling.

    RSL-1 pads, RBF660 fluid, and some brake ducting will solve all your problems.
     
  21. Rory J

    Rory J Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 30, 2006
    1,078
    If you're left-foot braking on track, make sure your foot is completely off the brake pedal when you're accelerating. Sounds obvious, but you'd be surprised at the bad habits people pick up.
     
  22. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    For brake ducting, what solutions exist for the 458?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    I would recommend RSC2 pads for the 458. The RSL1 is a great track pad. But it is rough too. With OE discs the RSC2 will be more gentle on the disc.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Nothing unfortunately.

    Run RSC2 pads and either Castrol React SRF Racing or Motul RBF 700 fluid. Now that I have tried both fluids, I would say Castrol suits the 458 the best. The 458 needs better modulation and the Castrol fluid helps with this. The SRF fluid may still have a tiny bit of compressibility but after it became a DOT4 fluid, it has become much better. It used to be a DOT5 silicone based fluid and that was pretty "soft", but now it is very similar to Motul.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  25. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    Wow, had no idea Motul made 700… I thought 660 was as good as it got. Thanks for the suggestions.


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