360 - 360 f1 with accident and not resale red | FerrariChat

360 360 f1 with accident and not resale red

Discussion in '360/430' started by ttforcefed, Apr 17, 2021.

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  1. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  2. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Stupid , 30k too much


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  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Crazy, not stupid… Those guys have access to all the information so they know exactly where the market is…
     
  4. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Mmm a lot of cars are starting to sit. I think we are at the pike and it stabilizes as return to normal nears spending should shift towards traveling


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  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Sold for $83,500 in Jan, 2014 at Mecum. Don't know miles or accident history at the time.
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Sit where??? There is no inventory at all. I know active buyers of 355, 360, 430 and 458 and they cant buy a car. Even 488 spiders are flying. What r u seeing sit?
     
  7. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    That wld have been a retail auction sale, so wholesale wld have been 10k less.
     
  8. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Testarossa’s are starting to sit that’s for sure. I follow the inventory closely and it is starting to sit, meaning some are not moving as fast as they used to.
    Agreed on 355 and so forth... but covid is ending so I don’t know if this will last


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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    hard to understand why tesatarossas never really participate. its beyond me. the 456 gtma frustrated me, but i sort of get that. the TR shld be 3x where they are.
     
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  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    carfax shows the accident in 2012 BUT with the following note:
    "This incident was first available for display by CARFAX on 01/31/2019"
    so the wholesale accident known price is 75K whereas the mecum retail price during the 2014 peak was $84
     
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  11. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Well they did go up and inventory is half what it was a year ago... so on the way up;)


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  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Just adding some history.
     
  13. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Looking at Hagerty, just for trends, not values, the market would seemed to have peaked around 2017. 360 market bottomed in 2014. That seems consistent with what I recall. I bought my 355 in 2013 and prices were pretty flat until summer of 15 as I recall. Anyway, retail prices are certainly up from there either way.
     
  14. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    14/15 was the peak. 17 was trending down. hagerty uses asking prices for much of its non unerwriting valuations.
     
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  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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  16. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    when you look at what you posted you dont see anything that stands out? ie the 2018 numbers?
     
  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Isn't the plot consistent with what I said? OK, based on the Hagerty data I was off a year.

    Your telling me the 360 market peaked in 14/15., was trending down in 17. That seems inverted.

    Not try to argue. As I said it's all history anyway. But I'm confused by what you said and the data I have access to. Certainly 19 and 20 appear weak, but 360 asking prices seem to be heading up again in 21 and higher than 14.

    The question of what the subject car will retail for is legitimate. Obviously the wholesale buyer is speculating that they will go higher.
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Thats like one car that traded way above anything else. Its spurious.
     
  19. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

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    2017 was a high for condo pricing if that adds any color.
     
  20. V4NG0

    V4NG0 Formula Junior
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    I posted the below in the TR section last month. Apparently Nat has detected a trend reversal.

    “Hagerty sent me a marketing email today that happened to contain their TR buyer’s guide. An apropos excerpt:

    ‘The Hagerty Valuation team has gained significant insight in to recent transaction prices for the Ferrari Testarossa...Since four months ago, Testarossas are up 42 percent for #2-condition (Excellent) cars and 76 percent for #1-condition (Concours) cars. No Ferrari saw a higher increase over that same time frame...’”
     
  21. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ


    Right now Ferrari of central Florida has a serviced, classiche 14k miles (for now 3 months) at 140k they haven’t been able to move, they also have a 119k that they can’t move.
    Rob on this forum bought his 24 miles on BAT last year for 102, been trying to sell it for 120k after putting capristo, clutch, major (20k) and it’s nice red and tan but not moving.
    TRs are up overall but seem mostly at auctions for now. I do think they are widely underrated and undervalued don’t get me wrong;)


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  22. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Do the math my friend. There were 10 cars sold at auction in 2018. Average price was 110656, High was 335000.

    So 1 car sold for 335000, the average price for the other 9 sales would be (110656 x 10 -335000) /9 = 85729. So even without the high single sale the 2018 average price is higher than average price for all cars sold each other year since the 2014 bottom with their high single sales included. Remove the high from each year and the average for all years will come down. Here is the formula, (Average w/o high) = (Average with high * number of cars - High) /(number of cars - 1), and here is the result for the average auction price for all cars omitting the highest priced sale. If all the data were available for all sales we could keep doing this until we were at the lowest priced sale each year. What's the point? The 360 spider market bottomed in 2014, peaked in 2018, came down in 2019 and 2020, and is rising again. DONE.

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  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Grumpy old men always know better. No one ever listens to them. That's why they are grumpy!
     
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  24. V4NG0

    V4NG0 Formula Junior
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    Dan breaks down the used Ferrari market for us. Here are the Cliff’s notes:

    Demand remains strong while supply remains constrained. Therefore, cars are generally moving fast and for increasingly higher prices, including both older and newer models. He spoke mostly in terms of dealer/private sales for his clients for whom he helps buy/sell cars.
     
  25. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    I watched the video, and for older cars his logic was backwards....demand is now much higher because everyone is doing really well on investments (my wife's 401k gained 60% in the past 18 months) and the knowledge that a higher inflation period is coming presents a "better buy one now" sentiment for buyers.

    The other IMO dumb thing said in the video was that an increase in 360 prices would increase 430 pricing because the 430 is a "better" car. All of us that have been following these markets for a long time know that each model follows it's own depreciation curve with respect to the previous model and inflection points (where the values equalize between adjacent models) occur all the time.

    Look at the Boxer and TR....the Boxer was at one point less expensive than the newer "better" TR....then the Boxer started appreciating on it's own merit, but did that push up TR prices? Of course not.....
     

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