When Flavio Manzoni team redesigned the F12 Berlinetta to make the TDF, one of the most notorious change they made was the rear. Manzoni wanted to affirm his design style and move away from Pininfarina's legacy, therefore the TDF rear was completely redesigned and the F12 Berlinetta “Kammtail” abandoned. The TDF was launched in 2015 and is interesting to see how Ferrari's design evolution was since then. When we compare the rears of the 812 VS and the TDF from the angle of the pictures below, they look completely different and I risk to say that have nothing in common. The design of the 812 VS is more muscular and sporty than any of its GT predecessors and can well be an inspiration for the future substitute of the 812 SF. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ferrari being considerate of other road users! Both cars look amazing from that angle, no denying, the TDF is a beauty, as is the VS
With 10 days to go my uncertainties are - * How many coupes /targas ( my guesstimate 812/299) * Name ( imho still 812Imola/A) *Performance esp 30-80 *weight saving and how achieved * Trick aero that we haven’t seen *Trick electronics for managing the power . *price . * how special ...
BTW, it thought it would look much more like the Omologato, but IMO they have barely nothing in common. The VS is more rooted in the SP Arya design IMO
I really hope they will make the Aperta variant very exclusive.... No more than 399, beyond that it loses some of its "Magic" if I may say.
Absolutely in line with you. 399 for the Aperta would be a maximum, considering there are already 700-900 coupés to come (whatever the exact number). Actually, the last open top V12 versions were way more limited (« 80 » for the SA Aperta and 10 for the F60 America).
As I see it, the TDF retains the Kamm tail look at the upper section, the F12b never really had much of a Kamm tail look below the mid section anyway. I think the first Ferrari to have a Kamm tail was the bread van, but first production Ferrari was the 250 GT Lusso. The upper section of the F12b and TDF both echo the rear of the Lusso. The 812 VS has more volume and curves and I see it less. But yes, it was time to get more aggressive, to my eyes with the F12tdf they flipped the rear and front motif. The F12b front is a bit of an upside down U, where as the rear is a T look. The TDF front now has the T look and the rear has the upside down U. The 812 VS is very aggressive, clearly meant to hint at more track focus. I would like to know what is going on with that large dark grey area above the diffuser that is not painted nor is it CF. It has two openings either side, must perform some aero function, but what function we must wait for an answer. It looks like an ideal place to mount a number plate. Could this area be available in CF? Should it be possible? I'm just curious to learn more.
Again, based on simple math, there should not be more than 350 Apertas. Coupes somewhere around 800-850... We shall see what E.G. has to say on May 5th.
I wonder how much weight has been saved, that for me is a elephant in the room because for all this track focus it would be disappointing if there is only a small weight saving.
Jerry, thank you for the explanation about Ferrari's historical facts behind the Kamm tail that few of us knew. In the rear, each of the two openings (tunnels) above the diffuser have three fins inside suggesting that their function is to divert and orient the exiting air to the curved surfaces located on both side of the large dark grey area you've mentioned. Where the air exiting these two tunnels is coming from ? For now is a mystery. These very interesting details, the design of the diffuser and the exhausts pushed towards the corners of the bumper, denote special attention has been given to aerodynamics.
Limited this, limited that.... boring! Unless one goes fully VF, there isn't a way to save a lot of weight, given that all Ferraris have been designed with such a consideration to begin with. You would have to take out sound deadening, equipment, etc, which would not fly with customers nowadays. Weight is just a number after all. What matters is how it feels to drive.
My only though about the rear diffuser is that it looks like too much a “separate” piece from the car chassis, just sticked to the bottom on the 812VS while on the TDF everything looks more armonious. What you think?
The most profound spec item I have heard so far is the four wheel independent steering. That is very novel and has the potential to transform the way this car goes. When I had our CS, I researched how to get a better alignment for track and fast road use than the factory standard, which was a bit too spiky at the rear on the limit. From memory I increased the toe at the front as well as camber all round. This gave a very responsive and sharp front end. However, the 360 ran something like 1.75mm toe per side at the rear. The 430 resolved a lot of this handling trait seen in all the 360 range by going to 2mm per side at the rear. I did the same with our CS. The car was transformed, it felt so good going quickly and even such a small change really tied the back of the car down. Obviously there were other trade-offs but for what I wanted I was delighted with what felt like a new car. Imagine being able to do this operation a thousand times per second, on the fly, with the development of Ferrari’s chassis engineers doing the thinking for you. In theory, assuming this is what they are thinking, you could really broaden the operating envelope of this car. If it’s what I think it is, I don’t know why anyone hasn’t thought about it before. It could be absolutely mighty.
Indeed. There has been plenty of automotive engineering research on this (and not just from Ferrari). A great implementation would need not just extra hardware, but very sophisticated software to handle all sorts of real-life scenarios. For now, this is not something a manufacturer can just throw in to a new model: there would be non-trivial R&D, testing, and costs. The 812 VS is as good a candidate as anything else for this feature being in production cars. It also seems that what this actually is (four-wheel independent steering, as in, four possible steering angles) is lost on pretty much every "journalist" / media person, or wherever Ferrari's press release is being parroted around. Everyone seems to interpret this as rear-wheel steering (two possible steering angles), which is what the F12tdf and 812 Superfast already have.
@Lukeylikey No idea how that will be useful in a "track car" other than parking maneuvers... https://www.thedrive.com/news/37190/heres-when-you-would-actually-use-the-gmc-hummer-evs-crabwalk-feature unless it is simply "advanced rear steer"...
I was thinking about this "four independent wheels-steering", but it cannot be done right now, since the EU requires that a mechanical lock exists between the steering rack and the front wheels. An independent 4WS would require a steer-by-wire set-up, like the fly-by-wire systems of modern aeroplanes. The calibration would be a nightmare!!!
If you’re referring to the large openings at the outboard edges, I noted in a previous post that the three strakes are very well aligned with the three louvres behind the rear wheel openings so it’s probably just drawing air in to fill the base area for reduced drag: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If you listen to the video that was linked here, it sounds like it’s really only the two rear wheels that are independently steered, which makes sense. As I commented earlier, for the front wheels to steer independently from each other—with a rack; and beyond the normal Ackerman effect—would require a sort of Mercedes F1 DAS system with individual circuits for left and right wheel, so it’s probably not the case and just a misnomer.
Hi Mario, that is not the area, I am wondering about the area more central to the rear - have a look at the chrome cavallino rampante and then below there is large dark grey or black area and to either side of this area there are openings, one per side. What is this for? This is what I wonder about. I agree with you guys the independent RWS could be massive. Imagine if it could turn each rear wheel at different amounts and at different times- it could go toe in, toe out, in phase with the front, out of phase with the front, or in theory turn one and not the other (???) I'm not an engineer just trying to think of possibilities.
I always read very carefully your posts, since you are a real engineer! Yes, what you say makes sense. PS: Ackerman angle... last time I read that was when I was in uni.
I don't know but I think the three rear vents are mostly just for looks. The large openings behind are more than adequate to vent the wheel wells. After all, the GTS has those fake vents above the arches since the input to them was deleted and they retained the large rear wheel vents. Its a balance between design and function. Ferrari markets aero effects producing downforce yet the next revision usually has more downforce without the prior design effect. Design would be less cluttered if you delete the three vents and shorten up the tail. Front and tail overhangs are large. If the wheelbase has not been shortened then you are looking at a wide, long, mid-front offering. For weight savings only the bumpers were CF in the F12tdf. The hood, rear windshield, removable top and especially door panels are options for CF in the 812VS. Save a bunch of weight. At 600K I doubt anything but the rear windshield and bumpers are CF. The door panel weight is massive in the F12/F12tdf and likely also the 812sf. Bet the tooling and assembly were too costly to go CF. The gas cap is not the bulky racing type because even Manzoni probably though it was too much in such a busy, crowed area. Looks like the one new design feature is the computer controlled toe. This thing looks like a hoot to drive.
