812 VS Rumors | Page 309 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    an electric engine is...an engine, even a steam loco is moved by an...engine, and hybrid car have...engines too....

    unbelievable, isn't it?

    Apart from that, all current Ferrari production have cylinders and pistons, and so it is in the future cars planned, I don't understand this widow's whining
     
  2. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    I have 35 years working in the motor industry, the last 25 at senior level running car distribution businesses all over Europe. I’m pretty good at seeing what is coming and have access to lots of information that many others don’t. But it has nothing to do with what we can all see and the fact that we will all be forced in Europe to adopt ultra low and zero emissions vehicles. This has to do with the way businesses adapt and consumer tastes change. You clearly won’t be among the people who continue to buy Ferrari product but it is a certain type of assumption to believe that just because you don’t like a thing nobody else will, both now and in the future. It is always easy on a forum like this to be ‘cool’ and just trash the future, of course petrol heads love combustion engines - where’s the thought in reaching that conclusion? I will always have combustion engined cars in my garage, I love them and have provided for my family by selling hundreds of thousands of them. The emotional attachment is strong. But the world doesn’t end with their demise. Much harder to open our minds and consider what the future will be like, reserving our judgment until we actually see it. 80 years ago there were some beautiful old propeller planes flying around, the age of the merlin engine and all. Then came modern jets. Absolutely no character compared to those old 27 litre V12s but they literally have no practical use today. Yet people who love aviation still desire and buy the latest aircraft. Times change and so will we. Our children anyway.

    So many of today’s luxury brands have had huge product changes and have benefitted from changing customer tastes and intentions. When or if every car is electric, do you think everyone from the two generations after us will decide they just don’t want a sports car and their ‘humble’ Toyota will do? And having decided to buy a sports car, with Ferrari still having a long heritage in racing and F1 and producing very sporting cars with whatever technology they have to use, that they won’t consider a Ferrari model worthy of consideration and purchase? It’s too improbable to be taken seriously. If Ferrari don’t keep up with new technology and allow McLaren, Porsche or newco to get ahead of them, that’s a different story.
     
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  3. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    I dont think day355 remotely thinks "nobody else will buy Ferrari". In fact he is just lamenting whats to come - nothing wrong with that.

    I have 35 years working in technology and I can see whats coming and it scares the cr*p out of me. These changes are imposed on us and unfortunately its not a choice and that "with the greatest respect" is the real issue.
     
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  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,280
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet

    This is not only an ecological or product problem but also a serious geopolitical problem.
    What are going to do these countries, dependent on these fossil fuels, without their main source of income?
    I find them very neutral in this global debate so i can imagine that an alternative solution to electrification is being developed by petrol companies..
     
    Shack likes this.
  5. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    R J, Thecadster, mclaren slr and 8 others like this.
  6. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    A very, very good post and spot on.
    History waits for now man and whatever open door you can kick in.

    As if ferrari, a multi biillion dollar company with a histrory to drool over is simely going to say "arividerci, let's go have a cappuccino, we are out"!
    Hell the F no.

    Times are changing and companies (are forced to) change too. And if we don't change well then the only thing obsolete will be us.
    Throughout history there have been countless of examples of new tech making old tech obsolete.
    It's up to us what value we put on old tech same as new.
    If you think Ferrari can't charge a premium for a future car because it is electric/comparable to other cars you will be wrong.
    Look at any luxury brand currently on the market.
    Consumers are willing to spend a ginormous amount of money on something they merely perceive as premium. Fashion being one of the best examples.

    People also still pay premium for mechanical watches, fully knowing a digital one is more accurate.

    People pay premium for LV, Hermes, etc, fully knowing the quality is the same as countles brands costs 1% of their price.

    I have good faith in the future, we will enjoy it by the buckets. Although it might be different thrills.

    No one is stopping us from keeping ICE cars in ours garages.
    I recently dreamt driving on the highway in pretty crowded traffic and hearing no sound at all as all cars were electric.
    At that moment I ****fed my 812C back to second gear and floored it. The sound echoed for miles and everyone looked and thought "damn...".
    I woke up with a big smile.
     
  7. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2016
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    It's always the same story: sink or swim, be stuck in the past or adapt and move forward. Room for errors in this multi-billion market is extremely tight and Ferrari (as any other company) can't afford to lose.
     
  8. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
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  9. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
  10. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    I agree that there’s nothing wrong with lamenting what’s to come if that’s your opinion. My comments are based on day355’s statement that “Ferrari is a brand we will be talking about in the past tense within a decade”. That might make a nice sound bite but will not, in my opinion, prove correct for reasons to do with new tech vehicles per se.
     
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  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Exactly. And the 365 GTB/4 inspired the 812SF, which is why it's too bad they didn't continue that path w/812C/812CA and create modern interpretations of Daytona/Daytona Spider - w/CF body!
     
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  12. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
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    One thing I think Ferrari did with the launch video was hit it out the park, to see the car dance around like that, to hear the V12, all very emotive (to me at least) and to then to see the Aperta just continued the "Wow". In my view this was one of Ferrari's best launches of a new model.

    Imagine a coupe in NART colors....
     
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  13. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    +1 and also none of the now common, tiresome, tire-burning “drift” scenes.
     
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  14. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Most of us here don’t know it all, and thus, can’t really predict the future. We just think we can. As has been mentioned before, did mechanical watches disappear because of the more accurate and functional digital and now smart watches? No, perhaps they are more successful today. Did horseback riding disappear due to the car? No, you can find many places to enjoy equestrian activities today. For the audiophile sobs, has digital destroyed the beloved vinyl? I believe Vinyl had its best year in many decades last year.

    As I see it, and I am hardly an expert, just someone with eyes and an imagination, these things transitioned from general use items, where the newer, more technologically advanced alternative, took over the use case for most people. But that leaves a passionate sub group to support the original concept.

    Humm... a passionate small group of people... does this sound familiar?

    So just using some imagination, I could envision a day where, yes, much to our chagrin, we are driving around in small forced induction ICE hybrid or maybe full EV and full autonomous- and that is our daily existence- and I don’t like it, but I could kind of see it. But this might push more people to go to tracks and drive combustion engined cars. You might actually see cars made that dont need tons of batteries and wires and instead can focus on light weight, manual shifting, etc, but with modern safety ability. Could a brand like Ferrari survive here? I think yes. They already have a blueprint for such a divergence: street cars and track activities.

    Now no analogy is perfect, but the usual retort to the comparing watches and horses and music to cars is none of these other things pollutes. But, my retort to that is the relatively few sports cars out there are not the issue with pollution. Its that you have people driving massive SUVs, mostly empty. Its what people seem to want.

    I think there is something very emotive, you might even say primal, about piloting a ICE vehicle, the V12 representing the pinnacle for most of us. Right now, these vehicles have to bend to the rules of the road. What if in the future they don’t? They could be even better.

    While I understand the reasons to be pessimistic, at heart I’m an optimist.

    I think the 812 C is some machine, this time calling it “the last of” feels accurate.

    Time will tell, in the mean time, go out for a drive, Forza Ferrari!


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  15. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    If the 812C ends up being about double the price of a normal 812, is anyone walking away? To me that seems very close to the walk-away price …
     
  16. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    It is not… the coupe is around 500k EUR


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  17. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
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    John Meier
    Will the 812 Superfast successor be a N/A V12 or not? What do you think? @Marcel Massini any insights?
     
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  18. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    I absolutely agree with this.

    While I imagine I will continue to buy new Ferraris, I have absolutely no intention on collecting or keeping any Hybrid or electric Ferraris. Zero.
     
  19. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    Fully agree
     
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  20. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Glad such a large/exciting back catalog of cars from which to select, as there's nothing exciting about hybrid/EV.
     
  21. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    Me too. I will try out the hybrid versions I’m sure but as far as keeping them long term I’m leaning towards no.

    I have a 991 speedster and it’s probably the slowest car I have but it’s so enjoyable due to that analogue feeling. You don’t need to go 150 mph to enjoy driving . That feeling of enjoyment at slower speeds is missing with these new drivetrains .


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  22. FLU

    FLU Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    #7722 FLU, May 7, 2021
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    Electric cars are in essence usually quite simple. You’ve got your battery packs, electric motors, usually no gears, and some form of battery cooling tech and that’s it! Nothing to it really.
    Most future performance electrics will be similar weight (heavy) with AWD and over 1000hp to 2000hp if comparing the same class of cars. Without the sound and driving character of a petrol engine, you’d be hard pressed to know in a blindfold test which car you are sitting in whether it be a Honda, Toyota, Ferrari, or even Tesla! That being the case, would you still pay top dollar for a Ferrari? Perhaps if only for the looks and styling.
    The future looks bleak and I don’t know how, but I wish the best for Ferrari and hope they will continue to find a way to make their cars feel special in the upcoming electric market cuz - Forza Ferrari!!
     
  23. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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  24. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    ok so that is $600k, add options and you are at $700k and you can buy an 812SF for less than half of that, so we’re not far off.
     
  25. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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    The car getting thrown around Fiorano.
     
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