488 brakes changing from Ceramic to Steel due to bird chirping sound thoughts | FerrariChat

488 brakes changing from Ceramic to Steel due to bird chirping sound thoughts

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by RobertM, May 6, 2018.

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  1. RobertM

    RobertM Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2005
    2,419
    Weston, Florida
    Full Name:
    Robert M
    has anyone changed the Ceramic Brakes to Steel ??? there is a conversation kit and you can use the OEM calibers. I have another thread regarding my current issue with the brakes making a bird sound chirping (on YouTube = Ferrari 488 brakes bird chirping). I did some research and found that you can switch out the ceramic brakes for steel. Has anyone done that ??? you can also use your OEM brake calibers
     
  2. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    No chance I would ever do that. There are other things you can do to reduce the squeaking.
     
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  3. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 31, 2012
    215
    Brake dust alone would have me not do that. Some days are worse than others, my Speciale sounded like a train stopping today, gotta just own it.
     
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  4. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
    2,108
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Joe
    A Ferrari mechanic looked at my friend one time and simply told him that he doesn't drive it hard enough. You need to basically "bed" really hard a few times and it goes away ... :) just my experience.
     
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  5. Euroryno

    Euroryno Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2015
    325
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    Agree with this. I ‘bed’ mine in and they make the odd squeal at medium temps during light braking and coming to a stop mainly but that’s about it. They went through a phase of squealing after this bedding in but has settled down again.


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  6. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    My experience confirms what has been mentioned, bedding the brakes (and "re-bedding" after intensive track use) allows to get rid of the squeaking.
    Replacing CCM by steel is typically considered for financial reasons, the CCM brakes being far more expensive to maintain (their added longevity does not wipe out the price difference, it only slightly attenuates the overcost).
     
  7. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    I can only imagine how the removal of stock CCM brakes for steel rotors would be viewed and reflected in the resale price...

    My only advice would be to change the pads and take it from there.
     
    Viperjoe likes this.
  8. RobertM

    RobertM Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2005
    2,419
    Weston, Florida
    Full Name:
    Robert M
    I have bedded the brakes and even drove in reverse and bedded them. Did you get an opportunity to watch the video.... (on YouTube = Ferrari 488 brakes bird chirping). On another note, if I changed the brakes to steel, I could always change them back to carbon when I go to sell the car. The sound I am getting is unacceptable from only having 1 track day. This is my 4th Ferrari and all of the others have been tracked and never heard sounds like this.
     
  9. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    Mel
    Ask the dealer firts how he would deal with it ... don't throw away money that simple ...
     
  10. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    When steel brakes are installed, they usually are retrofit to CCM in case of sale.
     
  11. davehsiao

    davehsiao Rookie

    Apr 12, 2021
    1
    Full Name:
    David Hsiao
    Finally got mine fixed...drove me CRAZY...almost to the point where I was embarrassed to drive the car! The chirping I had was IDENTICAL to what I heard in your video...occurring on my rear driver side. I had the dealership chamfer the brake pads and take off a minute amount of pad material. For good measure I also had them switch the pads (left to right, right to left). I also had the dealer apply that process to the front brakes as well as they used to sound like a semi truck coming to a stop. Worked like a charm and now all dead silent! Seems to be an issue only with the 2016 and 2017 models.
     
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  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    I can personally recommend the Surface Transforms discs. Initial purchase price is higher than steel, but you get a disc which outperform both steel and OE. It is as light as OE, lasts longer than both steel and OE, can be refurbished as well, and can run both street and track pads.
    With RSC1 pads the ST rotors are about as quiet as a sportscar brake setup can get. The steel is a bandaid to a cost solution but not a cure, and the 458's and 488's I've seen or driven with steel conversions have been anything but quiet.

    Something else worth noting. 458's, 488's, and F8's can have problems with deteriorating bushes in the front. These deteriorate due to heat from the brakes on car that are sometimes tracked. My personal experience was that ST rotors on a 488 and Pista is that they run between 80 and 120 C degrees cooler than OE discs when stock pads or RSC1 pads are used. On the flipside, my experience with steelies is that they run hotter than OE. So from that perspective it's not a good choice either.

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  13. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 15, 2015
    1,797
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Rob
    The Surface Transforms website does not show any figment beyond the 458 challenge, are those the same size for the 488/F8/Pista?
     
  14. Rdwaggie

    Rdwaggie Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 6, 2018
    105
    This is my plan when OE wears out. How do you handle the wear sensors / computer not recognizing with ST?


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  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    The F8, 488 and 458 all share the excat same front rotor specs. The OE Pista front rotor is 38 mm thick, where the others are 36. ST offers both and both fit perfectly on the Pista. Running a 36 mm thick disc on the Pista saves you a bit of weight. The added thickness is a benefit with OE discs as it gives you a bit more material to wear on, but due to the nature of CCST discs, thickness does not really change the wear characteristics as you wear on a super hardened layer on top of the core. This does not change thickness between a 36 and 38 mm thick disc. A 38 mm disc offers slightly better heat dissipation than a 36, but you would have to push hard with race pads like the RSL1 to see any real effect of that. If I measure a Pista at a pit lane entrance running 36 mm wide fronts after 5 hard laps, it is hard to get beyond 380-400 C when OE or RSC1 pads are used. Track pads like the RSL1 will obviously wear the disc faster and run hotter, but that's just the nature of things. The 36 mm and 38 mm thick disc cost the same to order, so for a Pista, sure run 38 mm wide fronts as that keeps everything nice and "stock". For an F8 or 488? No need to add weight in the hopes of dropping temps 10 C.

    The only difference between a Pista, F8, and 488 rear disc, and that of a 458, is the drum brake insert on the 458 rear disc. Offset, rotor and everything else is the same. What ST does when you order discs for an F8, 488, Pista or Speciale, is simply using a lighter rotor hat without provisions for the drum brake insert.
    A 458 rear disc will actually bolt on to a Pista with the drum brake inset in place. But why lug 1.5 kg of rotating steel around? So while they are not on the website yet, you can order them. Shoot me a PM if interested. I can get you in direct contact with the lead sales guy, and he is always up for striking a deal.

    They are doing more and more Ferrari stuff. The famous F12 TRS just had a set of ST discs made and shipped to Dubai, so now they are also available for the 812 and TdF.

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  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    Pad wear sensors are not an issue if you want to run Pagid pads. The pads have the provisions, and there's an easy way to get around the sensors not being available seperately. Just have an adapter made which goes from a FIAT plug to a Bosch plug. You can use a used wear indicator as it already has the FIAT plug in one end. Then solder the Bosch plug on 5 cm down the cable. This way you have a small adapter which allows you to run Porsche pad wear indicators which are sold seperately and cheap I might add.

    If you are fine with eyeballing the pad thickness you can just unhook the sensors from the pads wind them up with a zip for later use, or if they are triggered, just cut them short and solder them. It's just a two wire circuit that gets broken, nothing more.

    As for the disc wear indicatirs. They talk a lot about it, but so far I don't know of anyone who have actually experienced an issue. My dealer is also pretty laid back about it. When the disc wear says zero, just ask them to reset it if the light bothers you. It is 100% B.S that this can only be done with a code. Not only can it be reset, it can be turned off completely.
    If your dealer is,a,stubborn mule, give Craig Couzens at ST a call, he knows how else to get someone to reset this stuff. But look at all the Ferraris running ST and Girodisc systems. Ferrari threatens with limp modes and what not, yet there has not been any reports of this as far as,I can find.

    But like I said, ST can help you find a proper solution if your dealer will not play ball.

    You can either just

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  17. Rdwaggie

    Rdwaggie Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 6, 2018
    105
    This is exactly what I needed - thank you


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  18. K3silk

    K3silk Rookie

    Jul 18, 2018
    22
    Washington D.C
    Full Name:
    C. Smith
    bird chirping sound?
     
  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B

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