308 Carb or GTBi / GTSi (2V)? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

308 Carb or GTBi / GTSi (2V)?

Discussion in '308/328' started by nicolaprince, May 17, 2021.

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  1. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Then you are indeed very close from his home...

    Rgds
     
  2. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    The most reliable 308 is not a 308: it is the 328, but the aesthetics are not the same. I have two '89 328s, not a single problem in 13 years of ownership; you turn the key, it starts, and off you go.

    Rgds
     
    Rifledriver likes this.
  3. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    Thank you for your feedback, very comforting! In the past I always heard that the 328s are amongst the most reliable Ferraris ever, that's why I started my search from this model. Three weeks ago I checked one, had a quick drive, and was left with the impression it was even too refined, too easy. Then I started thinking of 308 and 348; as I checked the first 308, the carb I mentioned before, I was pulled away by its nose and the nicer interiors - at least nicer to my eyes. The 348 instead left me very cold both for the outside and the inside, plus I was left puzzled by some mechanical details - i.e. the gearshift controlled by Bowden cables that had to be replaced on that particular car, the engine out for the belt service, in one word I made myself the idea that it's a bit overcomplicated hence more vulnerable to failures.
    In parallel, at least here in Italy the 328s have reached prices exceeding my budget - but in case I will see an affordable one I will double think of your comments.
     
  4. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,083
    UK
    These are all old cars now so reliability will be dictated by how well they have been maintained. If you buy a 'cheap' car it will quite likely be unreliable until you have sorted all the issues out, by which point it will not be a 'cheap' car any more. One the plus side, at least you will know it's foibles and what has been done.

    You might prefer the looks of a GTB/GTS, but you should probably also consider a 308gt4 so that you can at least take your wife and baby/young child with you. Many people think they drive better too.
     
  5. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    Thank you Patrick, I fully agree on your first statement. Finally, I know the GT4, but unfortunately it does not resonate with me.
     
  6. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    #31 4right, May 18, 2021
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
    I am a little biased, however, after bringing two carb GTBs back to life, I obviously had help along the way, there isn’t much better than going through the process of restoring/sorting one of these cars. That is a large part of the ownership experience with a Ferrari 308. It’s the best stress relief money can buy. Which is why many owners do all of the maintenance themselves. And the satisfaction that you will experience afterwards is unbeatable. These cars are pushing 45 years old and they will need attention. Make sure that you take this into consideration before you make your decision. These aren’t care free turn the key and go kind of cars. Also, you will need to develop a relationship with someone that knows how to work on these cars and most importantly, someone that you can trust. Ask around and start thinking about someone that can help you when needed. A good shop that you can trust will be critical. I have always been able to reach out to Paul along the way and he has always been there to help. You will need the same.
     
    Albert-LP, 308 milano and waymar like this.
  7. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    Alberto Mantovani
    #32 Albert-LP, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021

    Hi Bruno, here I am. I had a long and pleasant phone call with Nicola alias Nicolaprince yesterday- He is a collegue not far from me. I think you all already wrote many good advices: now he just needs to find a good car that he likes. I can help, of course. There are plenty of Ferrari specialized shop here around Modena, so it won't be difficult to fix anything. The problem is always the same: buy the best car you can afford and try to learn what she needs before buying (and paying...) the car.

    ciao
     
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  8. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Always happy to read from you, Alberto. Taking into account where Nicola lives and where you live, and your experience with the different models, and the shops, workshops, etc...you were the obvious man to ask...and your last sentence is obviously very, very right: buy the best car available, with the best possible history, in the best possible condition. A car with a lot of needs will always be more expensive in the end.

    Rgds
     
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  9. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    @nerofer: thank you sooo much for having put me in touch with Alberto - what a nice and experienced guy!
    @4right: many thanks to you too. Unfortunately, as I said, I have no time at all to personally do any repair work, but already have found a very good and affordable mechanic - he himself owning a 512BB, a Countach, a 308 carb and who knows what else - through a friend and a good workshop close to home. Plus, I am sure that Alberto can help too.
    Tomorrow afternoon I am going to test-drive a very well preserved, fully original, black on red 308 GTBi.
    Finally, I know that these are old, delicate cars, but they are also the only ones I really like. Probably I am not in a true hurry to get one, but I also want to avoid to wait for too long and risk, later, to find myself in a position where prices will have become unreachable (from the unreasonable they are now).
    Thanks again to you all. Talk soon.
    Nic
     
  10. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    Dear all, for those of you who might be interested in my search, today I drove an excellent 308 GTBi for half an hour and I got flooded with adrenaline!
    The dealer was very nice and suggested to go on a fast public road where to open gas. In few minutes I found myself shifting at 7.000 rpm, with the engine growling very loud at double the speed limit (it was 80 kph). This is something I never ever do - and that I slightly regret - but in this situation my left brain turned completely off. :)
    The steering was fantastic, and I had to hold it very hard. The clutch was very hard too, and together with the marvellous gearshift I truly felt I was taming a brutal, yet lovable beast; the curves of this car are luscious, but her soul is really furious.
    Two hours after the drive I was still feeling the adrenaline in the venes, and I could not stop to laugh.

    I will try to drive as many 308s as possible, because this search is real fun, but finally I am fully persuaded that, for pure enjoyment on the public roads, the horsepower of a 2Vi is absolutely enough. And the sound, especially between 5.000 and 7.000 rpm, is intoxicating.
    The next one I am looking at is a GTB carb.

    Only issues with this GTBi so far are: price, just a bit over budget (but her condition is very very good); 2nd gear just a bit hard when the engine was cold - later I noticed that 2nd and 3rd are just a touch harder than 4th and 5th, but the dealer said he'll have it checked by the workshop. A little spot, roughly 20 x 20 mm, of slightly damaged paint on the front hood. Chipped low front wing and side hood grills, all retouched, but I think it's sort of normal if debris are flowing at high speed.
    Leather of the seats just a bit dry; lights-up control moved from the lights lever to a switch under the steering column - the dealer says it was a very common modification, approved by Ferrari. Last thing, metric wheels (R390) with Michelin TRX tires, that I hear being very expensive.

    That's all. Enjoy the rest of your day or of your night, wherever you are. It's 11 pm here and I am sure I will sleep very well. Or will not sleep at all!
    Bye bye,
    Nic
     
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  11. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Yep - this is how it starts. When you finally find "the one" - we'd love to have pictures.
     
    308 milano likes this.
  12. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Glad to hear that you enjoyed your first drive in a 308. Yes they are great cars! Make sure that you are asking about the last major service including belts. The belts should be changed every 5 years or so. Just so that you don’t have any surprises after purchase.
     
  13. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Paul
    Yup, that's the sweet spot.
     
  14. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    308 (and sons) are great handling cars, very nice to drive. I agree that every model power is more than enough to enjoy your Ferrari. This said, injected cars (all) sound is nice just at very high RPM (and 328 even more). Carbed and turbo cars are nice sounding even at low RPM and turbo even at idle. I suggest to install a free flow aftermarket exhaust for the injected cars: I had two 328, one with stock exhaust and the other with an SS afermarket, and there was no game.


    Ciao
     
  15. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    Many thanks to you all for the replies!
    @Kidasters: I did not take pictures because in the showroom there was a no pics sign and did not want to seem intrusive. Btw, it's exactly like the one attached.
    @4right: thank you for the recommendation. I asked for it since the very beginning and the service was done in november last year and is documented by the invoice.
    @alberto: thank you very much again for your feedbacks. This afternoon I will call another dealer for the GTB carb dry sump, and then I will see if to try also the 208 turbo, but I must admit I have a psychological bias in favour of aspirated 308s for two reasons:
    - I love simplicity, hence I feel the additional components for the turbo as an add-on - and whatever is not on the car cannot fail :)
    - I feel that the 208 turbo, born as adaptations against a tax law, sport odd specs for racing engines, which generally have bore/stroke ratios in the range of the 308/328. My opinion is different for the 288 GTO and the F40, that were born with the turbo in mind. Said that I will consider to test drive a 208 turbo to check if, beyond all this reasoning, I can fall in love with its sound!
    With regard to the exhaust, it is certainly something for later consideration, or for whenever the original one can become... boring? :)
    Thank you all again and I will keep you posted.
    Have a nice weekend.
    Nic


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  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    Alberto Mantovani

    288 GTO and F40 engines (F114B and F120A) were not "born with the turbo in mind": they simply were an F105A (the 308 QV one) engine upgrade that itself already was an F106AL (308 GT4) engine upgrade. But they are very close to the 308 QV engine.
    All those engines share the same crankcase and the 288 GTO even has the same 308 GT4 cranckshaft.

    If you liked the 308 GTBi engine, you will go crazy for the turbo '86-'89

    ciao
     
  17. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    Is it? Thank you for the info, I did not know.
    I will definitely have to try one! :)

    One more thing: do you know what were the original wheel and tire choices for the Carb and injected 308s?
    I.e. I saw some cars with R390 wheels, while others with R16 and I do not know if these were just retrofitted after the QV launch - I have not seen any QV eith R390 so far.
    I am checking the wheels too because the R390 TRX tires are quite expensive.
    Thank you!
     
  18. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    Alberto Mantovani
    I think it's time for you to buy my book, English or Italian edition: "Ferrari le turbo otto cilindri (1982-1989)" for the English or "Ferrari le turbo otto cilindri (1982-1989)" for the Italian one.

    Every online store has both

    Ciao
     
  19. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Welcome to Ferrari ownership, most everything is going to be quite expensive. The carb 308 came with 14” wheels and Michelin XWX tires prior to the TRX and 16 inch options becoming available. The XWX tires will be equally expensive.
     
  20. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,083
    UK
    Carb cars were all 14 inch wheels - 7.5 inch wide for the GTB/GTSs - wearing Michelin 205/70 XWX tyres. 16 inch Pirelli P7s (205/50 Front on 7 inch rims and 225/55 Rear on 8 inch rims) were an option.
     
  21. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
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    Nicola Prince
    Eh eh, I checked for it the day we talked.
     
  22. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    249
    Bologna, Italy
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    Nicola Prince
    Oh, thank you. So the 1978 Gts carb car I tried that had 16” 205/225, QV rear mirrors, QV steering wheel might be all original, or probably just the wheels were? Do you know when these options became available?

    One more for the group: how much are you valuing original paint and original colour?
    And original exhaust?
    As I said, I do not have a collector mindset, but would like to know your opinions.
    Good night!
    Nic
     
  23. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Ken
    The cars have been modified and changed so much over the years - I think the more original, the higher the value.
     
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