F1 Setup Help | FerrariChat

F1 Setup Help

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by lkstaack, May 30, 2021.

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  1. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    I recently had the TCU on my '02 360 remapped with a Challenge Stradale TCU and I've been unsuccessful setting it up using an X431. My original map was too old to be read, so I have no idea what the original values were. I hope someone can advise.

    I think I have to set up clutch configuration and PIS. I've attempted to set the clutch configuration to the Self Calibrated Clutch Closed Position. After doing so, it reads what I inputted when the 360 is on with motor off (18.42). However, it reads a different value when the motor is running (8.23). I've tried inputting different values with the motor on and off, but I still read a clutch configuration around 8 with the motor running.

    Setting the PIS doesn't seem to change clutch engagement. I've set it as low as 4.3 and as high as 5.0, and the clutch won't hold on a slight incline.

    Does anyone have any advice?
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,288
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    With the motor running the clutch is disengaged.
     
  3. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Roger that. I've noticed that clutch configuration readings change when I'm in neutral or 1st gear. I've inputted the Self Calibrated Clutch Closed Position distance into Clutch Configuration when in 1st gear. Although I input 18.42, it won't read higher than 11.06. When I input PIS down to 4.0, the 360 will move in 1st and reverse, but only when RPMs reach 2,500; and even then won't hold at an incline.

    Obviously, I know little about the F1. It seems to me that the Clutch Closed Position is off. The x431 seems to only have write options for Clutch Configuration and PIS, so I'm assuming that "Clutch Configuration" is synonymous with Clutch Closed Position.

    So, my questions:
    1. Will the X431 write Clutch Closed Position data? Is it in the "Clutch Configuration" window? Should it be the same or similar to "Self Calibrated Clutch Closed Position"?
    2. Can I safely input a PIS lower than 4.0?
    3. Is it likely that my problems stem from the TCU flash, or is it the F1 setup?

    My deep appreciation to anyone who can provide assistance.

    BTW Rifledriver, I'm curious if your handle reflects a past history as a Tanker?
     
  4. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,233
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    When you say the clutch won't hold on an incline, does that mean the car rolls in gear with the engine off?
    Text me and I'll help you out. 770-845-8335
     
  5. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    1,235
    Toulouse (France)
    Full Name:
    Eric DECOUX

    Hi Lars.

    1. Why are you trying to modify the "clutch position value when new" through the clutch configuration ? This value should reflect the TCU reading when the clutch is NEW not the position it shows now on your car ... except if you want to show 0% of clutch wear!!
    With 18.4mm when the engine is off, I would guess that your clutch wear is a bit more than 40%. On the 360, the "clutch position value when new" is around 15mm (14.5-15.5mm). That's what was in the TCU when you received it and you should put it back to such a value, not 18mm or 11mm or 8mm !!!
    2. Yes you can safely decrease the PIS below 4mm. Try to find the value where the car is just about to creep in 1st or reverse on a flat surface when you remove the foot from the brake and without applying any throttle. Do that with the car fully warmed.
    3. At first I would say F1 setup !! If ever you are still not happy, you know where to ship the TCU back ... ;)

    Ho wwas your clutch before ? Do you know if it has been changed ? Do you know if the throw-out bearing has been changed ?
     
  6. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,163
    Part of your problem is you have a 2002 TCU which is a CFC201 hardware level and you have put software into it for a CFC231. What should have been put into it was a 2004 360 software, it will work much better.
    Your new clutch position should have been 14-15mm. I would enter 15mm into clutch configuration and leave it alone. PIS on a standard 360 is generally 4.5-5.5 but I have seen them as low as 3.7 although that is an exception and not the rule. Stradale is typically 3.7-4.2. The car should not creep in gear and you should not feel it go into gear when you go from N to 1st or reverse. If you do feel it the PIS is to tight or the pressure plate is failing. I set the pIS to smoothly take off from a stop under moderate acceleration at about 2,000 rpm. Any tighter and the car will lug and you will feel the clutch double bite, any looser and the rpm will flare.
    Your self calibrated clutch position KOEO will reflect the current clutch position and new clutch minus current clutch is the calculation for your wear.
    Not sure what you meant by it wont hold on a hill. If the car rolls while off and in gear it sounds as if you have a mechanical clutch issue and no amount of adjustment or software is going to sort it out.
    Why were you not able to get the original numbers from the TCU? IF you can read a 2004 or Stradale you can read a 2002, adjustments and software may be different but not the data read.
     
  7. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    1,235
    Toulouse (France)
    Full Name:
    Eric DECOUX
    FYI, some CS have CFC201 H/W and some have CFC231 H/W. There are 2 S/W versions, one for CFC201 and one for CFC231. So it is very possible to make a CS TCU from a CFC201.... even though I don't know what has been put in this particular one.

    X431 can definitively connect to a CS TCU but not to a 2002 TCU. S/W architectures are not the same and do not connect the same way.
     
  8. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,163

    I do not believe Stradale came to US with CFC201, If I am mistaken I've never seen a US Stradale with CFC201
     
  9. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
    1,235
    Toulouse (France)
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    Eric DECOUX
    I don't know about the US, but here in France, I have seen both, a end 2003 CS with a CFC201 and a 2004 CS with a CFC231.
    Both with the same part number : 196986
     
  10. Tomcopp1

    Tomcopp1 Rookie

    May 28, 2021
    7
    Full Name:
    Thomas Coppinger
    Eric can you pm me?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  11. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Thank you Ferrari Tech, eric355, and windsock for the benefit of your experience. Despite your best help, I'm afraid that I've left my poor 360 in worse shape than it was yesterday. It currently has x431 TCU fault codes P0715 (Gearbox Input Revolutions) and P0720 (Gearbox Output Revolutions). The faults return after clearing, and the shifter doesn't work with the faults active. Can anyone guess what these faults indicate?

    This is what led up to these faults: I reset the clutch position to 14.98, the clutch closed position setting the TCU came with, and gradually lowered the PIS to 3.87; the setting that allowed me to back up at 2,000 RPMs. I backed down my driveway with a slight decline, but when I applied throttle at the bottom, the car bucked and stalled. I restarted, placed it in 1st and it bucked again. I then reset the PIS to 4.0, but the car wouldn't move. I checked and found the faults mentioned.

    I've had the 360 up on jack stands for the last month. It was running properly before then. I indicate below what I've done since then. The clutch and throwout bearing has 8,177 miles since replacement. What action do you suppose has lead to this state? Could air in the clutch line cause this?

    1. Reinstalled remapped TCU with CS
    2. Replaced clutch block with Hill Eng unit
    3. Replaced F1 fluid with Ravenol GHA
    4. Bled the power unit, clutch block, and actuator (removed and reinstalled potentiometer on side of actuator)
    5. Removed and replaced heat exchanger
    6. Replaced all fluids
     
  12. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,163
    I would check you have the TCU properly plugged in. To many random problems. Why did you take the potentiometer off the side of the shift actuator? Its looking like you have likely created multiple issues trying to correct a problems stemming from the remapped TCU.
     
    Tomcopp1 likes this.
  13. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    I'll do it, though the connection is pretty idiot proof.

    I did it because I'm a stupid noob. There were two screws holding on the actuator that were difficult to access. The WSM advises removing the catalytic converter, but the nuts/bolts/bracket was so rusted that it would have to be cut. Removing this little sensor made getting access so much easier. I wish I didn't. But, self-learning works, so the potentiometer must be attached correctly, right?
     
  14. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,233
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    Look closely at the TCU and make sure no pins are bent over and not connected. I have seen this before.
     
  15. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    First thing on my Ferrari todo list. Thanks.
     
  16. lkstaack

    lkstaack Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2020
    252
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Checked the pins: all looks good. Cleaned them. Ensured connectors easily slid in and connector lock was set. No effect.

    I doubt it means anything, but the CCP read 160.88 after I turned on main power and started the engine. It went back to 14.98 right before the F1 failure light came back on. Same fault codes, but this time it stated that the Input Revolutions was present, but the Output revolutions was absent. Perhaps an issue with the Shaft Speed Sensor?
     

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