Morning All I've bought a US Spec 1986 328GTS, I would like to achieve some more performance from the engine, but without doing major work like a rebore etc. The US spec exhaust and Cats are off and a new system will be going on. But any other pointers greatly welcomed.
Hi Elms, you're in the UK ? So you will mount a new exhaust system? Then thats one of the restrictions gone! the other one is in the intake, the barn door .. I think its called CIS in English Programmable injection will surely get that engine alive. But I can understand its a (to) big investment. Otherwise you can service your CIS. Its 40 yrs old now so some revision will be great. Also equaling the 8 injector outputs (Injectors are about 15 pound or so.. so new injectors is an easy way. To Service (overhaul) your CIs its an expert work. I did it myself but I'm experienced and still dont have good results. Set two is orderd the give it a new try. I used Salvox.com (UK) but I'm not satisfied. So I ordered in Germany now. Simpel other upgrade is more are by a sports sir filter. Paper is fine, but gets older sooner then pipercross or K&N. etc For serious upgrades you must rise the compression and use other camshafts ($$$$). The USA spec has a low comporession and so higher camshafts wont really work. how are your suspension bushes and shock absorbers (and brakes)?
Hi. Yes I’m in the UK. I have a meeting this afternoon with Hayward and Scott who are custom exhaust manufacturers. Re your recommendations, I’m very fortunate to have a great Ferrari technician work for me and I’ll tell him of your thoughts. Suspension, we seem to have a small amount of weeping from one of the rear shocks. I’ll be keeping the standard wheels so I think that limits my options when it comes to brake upgrades. But the wheels will probably have 10-20mm spacers fitted to widen its stance. It’s going to be more resto-mod than a full on rebuild. a friend of mine who is a car designer had a very quick play with photoshop for a before and how I would like it to look after …. Image Unavailable, Please Login
As far as getting more than "stock" power on these motors, unless you have pretty deep pockets, OR do all the work yourself, IMO it is just not cost-effective. Obviously, the conventional methods - change of cams/fueling/compression/increasing displacement (especially the last) will produce more power but the cost/benefit is poor due to the price of Ferrari parts/shop labor. FWIW, the more or less rule of thumb power increases is that it takes around 30HP on a car of this weight/power to make a noticeable difference in performance. Also consider that max power increases typically lose power in the low/midrange where the power is actually more useful unless you are on the race track. Only increasing compression and/or displacement can increase power throughout the entire rev range. Additionally, raising compression does not increase power as much as some people think it does. If you increased the compression of your 328 engine by two points - from around 9:1 to 11:1 - your power increase would be around 10-12HP. That's useful on the race track but it's not worth much on the road. As far as acceleration, that would put you less than 1/2 car-length ahead of a stock 328 in a 1/4 mile test. Frankly, I'd recommend forced induction in the form of supercharging. There are a couple of decent kits around and if you limit boost to 5-6 PSI, you will have a 75-80 HP power increase throughout the entire rev range and stay within the capabilities of the OEM engine/drivetrain components. An advantage to the supercharger kits is that they don't require any engine modification and can be removed and the engine returned to totally stock at any time. Of course, the advantage of internal engine mods is that the engine bay appears totally stock whereas forced induction is obvious.
No such thing. Any exhaust modifications done will change noise and provide a placebo effect but will not result in any real double digit change. The cheapest solution is a supercharger and that is both expensive and invasive. I suggest enjoying it for what it is. If you need more power, buy a more powerful car.
Removing the powersapping cats will make an difference. Re enjoying it for what it is, I will I'm sure but to gain a little extra torque to being it up to a slightly better level than the engineers could do in 1986 wont go amiss. I've got plenty of other much more powerful Italian cars in my stable but I like the classic lines of the 328.
I don't understand chasing power in the 328 when that will hurt the value and damage an original car. Every grocery getter out there will have more power. The best way to make your 35 year old 18 again is dumping her for a 360.
Powersapping cats? Are you kidding? Dyno it now, take them out and dyno it again then get back to me. I am not new at this.
I'm not worried or precious enough about it to lose sleep about losing value. A modern hot hatch would leave it for dead for sure, but thats not the point for me. Some things are just worth doing for personal enjoyment.
So you want performance mods to your 328 because you like to tinker, not that you are trying to go faster?
I don't tinker myself, I am fortunate enough to have a very good guy who works for me full time looking after my cars. When I got the 328, we made a snagging list and I came up with a 'restomod' idea for it. Heaven forbid it upsets the purists, but its my car and my money. On that list is a way to liberate more performance, I'm not expecting 400hp just an extra 20% would be suitable.
certainly, you have that right, have fun. just FYI from our FerrariChat experience 90% of these projects never get finished. 100% of them will be worth less than the stock car even after putting all the money in it. just a friendly heads up in case you didn't already know that.
20% (50-60 HP) will require major engine mods. But if you are not concerned about the cost/benefit or originality, as you pointed out, it's your car and your money do whatever you want with it! I think most of the input here is directed at the thought that you may be disappointed in the results vs the money spent. But the important thing is for you to enjoy it and if enjoying the car means making the mods necessary to get 20% more power, then make them! or... Supercharger!!!
I stroked and bored mine to 3.5 liters, raised compression to nearly 11:1. The heads got cleaned up and better flowing valves installed, went to the most aggressive advance available, removed the cat and I'd really be surprised if I got 50 more HP. It is noticeably torquier with a fatter mid range and not counting my time it was expensive. We also used Crower rods and between the rods and the Wiseco pistons cut a lot of recip weight.
Brian, my 84 QV has close to 152K miles on it. In your experience do you see a loss of power or throttle response from old/clogged cats? I know the car is never going to be a rocket but I wonder if a new cat would restore some snappiness.
By 84 it should have had the large round cat. It was a very well designed and constructed piece. My comments apply to that one only. If it If it is burning quite a bit of oil they can clog or if they have been overheated and break up internally they can clog. Other than that age only gradually burns away the internal matrix and it actually becomes more free flowing and less effective. For a car driven that little my concern for the environment is not disturbed by just removing it if need be. A new Ferrari cat is really expensive and aftermarket replacements are not very good.
I think what happens sometimes is that folks don't realize that generally these engines are (were) HIGH performance production car engines act the time. In the case of the 328, its little 3.2 litre engine made 30 more HP than the 5.7 litre engine in a Corvette of the same year. So there's not a lot to work with as far as increasing power with bolt-on parts. You can increase that Chevy motor's HP by 20% with relatively little time/money spent. Not so with the Ferrari. As the old engine building saying goes, "You can't beat cubic inches!" Re cats, A few years back John Lingenlfter (famous chevy engine builder) tested one of his 700 HP chevy motors with/without cats. He found that the difference was within the margin of error of the dyno but repeated tests came up with 715 HP without cats, 707 with cats. Lower HP engines showed nothing he could reliably detect. Of course if the cat is clogged, it can certainly reduce power, as can a clogged muffler...
People asked us in the day what they could do for more power. We told them Ferrari already did it, why did they think it cost so much?
Best bet: sell the 328 and buy a 430. If you dont want to do that, then you need a supercharger or turbocharger and a midern programmable EFI system. From personal experience removing the cat does nothing except change the exhaust note and reduce fire chances.
I have a Tubi with a test pipe, I would like to believe that I had a small gain, thats what the Tubi rep told me, but like you folks said, none that can be measured. I do think the car runs a little sharper, it sounds better and it definitely runs cooler. I thought about going over to the Forza ignition, but I do not want to change the stock engine looks. The money also is not worth the 18 HP increase I believe gained. The 328 s driving experience far outweighs the lack of HP.( when compared to todays figures.) . I am also not willing to sell my 328 to buy a faster Ferrari, I would like to have my 328 and a 488 GTB !! And I believe I can make that happen at some point. Thank you
Between ourselves we joked the cars had a hidden horsepower screw and we would just give it a few twists.
Thanks Brian. Mine does burn a bit of oil. I think when I put it on a lift next weekend For some other stuff I will pull the cat and see how it looks inside and go from there.
A few years after buying my 308 I added a 360 to the stable. It was an amazing car but it felt a bit sterile and of course I could never realize its full potential on the street. I came to understand it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. I sold the 360 after about 6 years. YMMV.
