FP Journe vs Patek

Began to look into FP Journe, with 100K budget which one would you get vs Patek? Discussions of collectability and movement are welcomed!

 

Try and find one of these.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/watches-weekly-new-york/f-p-journe-centigraphe-souverain-ferrari-a-limited

 

More info: BTW. These were around 100 when last traded.

 

Patek.

Don't be silly.

 

Agreed.

 

I recommend you go with whichever one speaks to you the most. I'm a big Journe fan but then again I don't like all their models and prefer many Pateks over some Journes given the same price point. The opposite is true in other cases.

The fit and finish is great on both and the movements are top notch as you would expect. Journe's style is fairly unique and you either love it or hate it. Patek is generally more conservative.

Do you have any specifics models you're considering?

 

At that price point look for the early Journe with the brass movement much more unique. Personally, with a $100K budget, I'd look at Lange, De Bethune or Voutilainen.

 

Where are you located? FP's brother runs the Los Angeles boutique and would be a great help.

 

FP Journe is exceptional horology, along with Voutilainen, Patek is a step down although they have some rare, exceptional horology pieces. Those two gentleman, Kari & Francois, are the watchmakers. When you buy a Patek, who is the watchmaker? Patek makes 50,000 plus watches a year, F.P. Journe can only make and inspect 2-3 per day (850 per year) Kari does one per week. There is no doubt that Patek is the Ferrari of the watch world (love Patek), but Voutilainen & F.P. Journe is Bespoke Bugatti territory.

 

The Journe Resonance is the most unique and collectible but are priced at around 120-130k CHF retail. The Chronomètre Optimum has the most accurate movement and a dead beat second at the back but less collectible and maybe undervalued compared to other Journes.
With 100K why not get a Chronomètre Souverain and a Patek 5170/5172, 5905, 5231 or 5968?
Voutilainen has incredible finishing and I plan to visit the manufacture as soon as the Covid rules are relaxed to order one. No idea about collectibility though. I think most customers are true enthusiasts who already own Patek, VC then Journe. Voutilainen is the next step.

 

My quick take: If you can get a Journe at a boutique (Miami or LA) that would be great, go for it over the Patek if you love it. Watchbox seems to be the market maker for Journe as they are buying everything and reselling it at high margin. If you can't get a new Journe from boutique, I'd call Cellini in NYC and get a Voutilainen that is in production, perhaps you can change the dial, color or between Arabic and Roman numerals if there is a watch that is not already spoken for?

Getting a Voutilainen is like having a neighbor in France named Picasso in the year 1910 and getting a painting of his because he needs money for rent and women. Everything is exceptional. Talking about movement, Patek is using silicon in their movements now and some speculate it's why they no longer have the Geneva seal, instead they stamp movement with their own (PP) seal.

 

Definitely will visit the FP Journe boutique in LA as I am local. I thought the reason for the Patek not getting the Geneva seal is because they have moved the factory out of Canton, which is one of the criteria.

Is Silicon worse in the movement manufacturer in terms of durability?

I just saw the chocolate Voutilainen on youtube! OMG

 

Look at Dufuor watches on YT as well. If considering, would need to add another zero to the budget.

For a more budget friendly independent look at Laurent Ferrier, not in the same "league" and a bit limited stylistically but quality/finsh is there, a lot watch for the $$.
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lol! You mean just one more zero! not 3 more right? lol.

 

Lol, yes. I was in the process of editing.

 

I think Patek switched to silicon in the balance spring because of reliability and accuracy from magnetic and temperature changes...but for some, and for $100k budgets, it's cutting corners for a mechanical watchmaker. Patek isn't on the same level as FPJ, KV, Grönefeld, Bovet, Claret, and many others. But Patek does have top notch name recognition and arguably better liquidity if you need to sell quickly if that's a consideration.

Speaking of Philippe Dufour as @poljav mentioned above, Dufour has raised more than an eyebrow at the thought of using a silicon balance springs in mechanical watches. If perfect accuracy in all temperatures and all shock configurations is desired, why not just buy an Apple watch? Or any $50 quartz watch which will outperform any Patek in any accuracy test any day of the week.

 

Ferrier is another great example, higher horology than Patek, not as well known, they make about twelve watches a month and amazing value. If this Ferrier had a Patek logo, it would be $150,000+

 

Lots of good options for 100k. But Patek you can get your money out quick and easy where as some of the other brands might be a bit more difficult.

 

I see a lot of brand names being thrown around here. Make sure to see them in person, just because they only make 2 watches a year doesn't mean they're all that. I've had 2 Grönefelds for sale in my office and I was not impressed with either. Journe captivated me from the beginning and that only increased when I saw it in person. The main reason why a lot of other independents are getting attention now is because of Journe.

Laurent Ferrier is a good option as well but you'd have to spend less as I don't think their 100k offerings match Journe or PP for that kind of budget.

Not sure what your collection consists of but for 100k I'd go Patek, Journe or Lange.

 

interesting, do you remember what it was about the watch? Something with the movement finishing or something else?

 

I'll dig up some pictures later today. I know they only make around 150 watches a year but the movements are sourced from Switzerland then assembled and maybe refinished in the Netherlands. That's all fine, I don't expect everyone to make their own movement. However, the movement finish did absolutely nothing for me. It just didn't seem like a 70k watch honestly. I'm also not a big fan of the design but that is subjective.

 

I really like the Principia (in house movement I think???) but sounds like it was a different model from your description.

 

Laurent Ferrier is a good option as well but you'd have to spend less as I don't think their 100k offerings match Journe or PP for that kind of budget.

Not sure what your collection consists of but for 100k I'd go Patek, Journe or Lange.[/QUOTE]


Laurent Ferrier looks great but the man can't be compared to the star watchmakers such as Dufour, Voutilainen, Journe or even Rexhep Rexhepi. He "only" was in charge of case design at Patek for many years. Without disrespect

 

So... Which ones do not use an in-house movement.

It's amazing to me that, until recently, Rolex used Zenith movements for chronographs. By contrast, Jaeger LeCoultre does everything, but gets little popular respect.

There are lots of ways to dress up an ETA movememnt. Langë is much more interesting.

Matt