Maserati Bora - Picture Thread

Interesting take.

I had to build something like this for my race car at one point which turned out to be needed due to an oncoming engine failure. So there was a lot going on that was just wrong. I got a tremendous amount of water vapour mixed in with the oil, a kind of foamy gray sludge. Another design which didn't provided adequate oil separation and subsequently coated the the insides of the turbos and intercoolers with a film of oil.

I ran my Bora on high speed runs of more than an hour at a time many times and I didn't notice any particularly awful issues. But yes that's where the air breather with a slinging mechanism on the cam is located. It does tend to foul the inside of the air cleaner housing and filter in that corner.

In the vintage Lamborghini community the old V12 has a similar issue with excessive crankcase blow by causing an oily mess. Lamborghini didn't deal with it very well to begin with. They had just a hose coming off the end of one of the front cam covers, no oil sling. The hose routes to the ground over the front RH suspension assembly which typically is oily, never rusty and caked with road grime. Primitive to say the least. Over time they were forced to collect the crankcase fumes more definitively due to increased emissions regulations. This led to all sorts of additional plumbing and typical bothersome side effects. A gentleman in that community engineered a very nice sling that sits on the end of the camshaft and that helps cuts down the amount of oil that escapes. Basically the same as Maserati except that there is a better drain back mechanism on the later V12s such as in the Espada than there ever was in the Maserati V8s. Interestingly that was about the time Giulio Alfieri had moved to Lamborghini after getting the boot from DeTomaso ... coincidence????

On this car I do see that a hose goes down over the front of the engine but from these photos it's hard to definitively say where? Maybe Marc can find out? That's a lot of stuff just for crankcase ventilation ... I wonder if it could be for both purposes? How would residue from that box drain? Perhaps just a periodic throw away? Lots of questions ...

 

Interesting indeed.
Do you know if that oil issue was common to all Maserati V8's from the early ones (QP I, Mexico) to the last one in the QP III, and also similar in wet and dry sump engines?

 

What oil issue?

 

Oil foaming and return of oil vapors as described in the posts above

 

What I described was not an enormous issue for the normal driving of the old Maserati V8 cars, all cars were rather stinky back then. They will foul up the air cleaners and filters a bit but I don't think that's a huge concern. What we were discussing were unusual operating situations as in a go fast Bora. The later V6 Biturbo engines did have a bit of an issue with oil vapours mostly because oil vapour in the intake stream plates out on the intercoolers thereby reducing their efficiency. I soak mine in paint thinner occasionally and that works just fine.

 

After over 35 years of ownership I am not aware of any such real issues regarding the Maserati V8s.
The posts above center on conjecture as to why and how Bora 178 was modified by a previous owner.
Interesting exercise.
Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Having spent time on other cars this spring, it was high time to get Bora #932 out and stretch its legs...

Dio mio, what a phenomenal driving machine. Heads and shoulders above the Khamsin. What a testament to Alfieri - steering, balance, suspension and roadfeel is perfection.

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Love my Bora more than any car I have ever owned!
However, enjoy actually driving the K a lot more!

 

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Put about 140 miles on it Friday, here I’m snooping around trying to pry loose one of those 911’s from a buddy….left early in the morning, chilly, perfect performance with little traffic, but the afternoon was hot with brutal SoCal traffic. Water temp rose a bit, but oil temp was still in a good range. It’s definitely happier at speed.

 

Are you still running the factory fans? If so, you may want to look into some more modern one with higher CFM and a manual override switch that lets you turn them on when you start to see the temperature rise.

 

I’ve looked at am117au ‘s solution, and the SPAL just arrived ….

 

Your Bora has a very different airflow for the radiator. I'm not sure what that would do? I like the idea of much higher capacity, modern fans. You may need to run heavier gauge wire for them which isn't hard to do. Just run them on their own heavy duty buss and use the old circuit to operate new relays controlling the on off function. Did 1044 ever get an uprated radiator? If not then do it. But I think you'll be just fine in Monterey as the car is now unless something isn't up to snuff. Monterey is rarely very hot at that time of year. I wouldn't start any big projects on the car till after Monterey. You'll understand the car better by then too.

I think you live in SoCal? Take it for a day's worth hot temperatures driving. It won't perish and you'll learn about it's systems well.

 

It has the stock radiator and fans. I flushed the radiator and checked the fans within the last year. Higher capacity fans are a good idea if the car is going to be driven in heavy traffic. That was something I always avoided as I was trying to keep this Bora as original as possible.
Once going to a car show in South Carolina I was got stuck in heavy traffic due to an accident in another 1977 Bora and turning on the heater really helped keep the engine within normal range. Of course it made the cabin very uncomfortable as it was in the middle of summer. The traffic jam lasted for a couple of hours and my wife was not at all happy.
Ivan

 

Well Gary Siemian (SP?) survived the weekend way back when but then traffic was a lot less congested at that time. Different fans will definitely be noticed on this style of Bora but a radiator change wouldn't be.

 

It's interesting how different Boras cooling systems seem to be behaving, and it seems not just related to the down-venting radiators vs up-venting design. I'm sure different (hot) ambient conditions play a role. Around here we might see 100F one week out of the year, and our highways don't get significant traffic jams.

FWIW
- In traffic, there isn't much that can help but fans and Ivan's turn-on-the-heater trick. I've done that once. Luckily mine is OK up to at least 95F ambient. I've added 'Water-Wetter', and removed AC equipment from the front of the radiator.
- When there is no traffic, I found that if my Bora gets heatsoaked it won't drop much below 90C unless I ease along around 40-50mph... or until I reached speeds of 120mph to 140 indicated. That's probably a bit of "humblebragging", but it was fascinating to experience.

Cheers,
- Art

 

Let's not scare James too much. AFAIK we don't even know what his intentions are for the car ... showing it or driving it.

 

I tried the heater trick on my friends Bora at the Sliver State race. It was a disaster once we opened the windows and sucked all the burning oil fumes in through the center interior tunnel cover. So we had to give up and limit our speed to 130 to keep the heat down. That was a vents on top car.

 

Two things: the weather in Monterey isn't the issue, it's the way home that is. On the way up to Monterey, you can start in very cool temperatures, and by the time you get to Monterey you've avoided the hottest part of the day. (Tomorrow's forecast: 106 F) One year, when I started mid-day in a Uracco, it was 113 on the 5 on the way up, with inoperative AC. Not so much fun. On the way back, you have a choice: go the fastest way home and risk the uphill climb of the Grapevine in a very hot part( usually at the very least high 90's F) of the day, or go through Santa Barbara and run into that parking lot that the 101 turns into. Neither choice for an older car (been there, done that) is one that avoids taxing the cooling system, though Santa Barbara doesn't have that killer hill.
Additionally, I haven't vetted radiator choices, though as Ivan pointed out, this is a pretty good performer regardless. The choice is dedicating the car to the show circuit, with occasional drives, or putting it into more regular duty and disregard the show circuit. It's a great car as it is, but having built a #1 show winner, well, I'm not sure I want to make that effort, as a #1 car is a real chore. Much more likely to see a wash and shine/street concours preservation class duty. Full Pebble-type concours are hours and hours of work, and you end up with a car you're afraid to drive.
I digress. For me, from a cooling system perspective, I'm going to draw an analogy with F1 machinery (or any formula, for that matter). Fabulous cooling at 185, not so good sitting still, as they have no fans at all, That's why you have all the ancillary fans to blow some air into the system while the car is stopped, or it would just cook. As Ivan indicated, the car doesn't really have a cooling issue, but if I do go down that slippery slope, I'd like to know where you sourced replacement , higher capability radiators, and which fans you used to go with that. As it is, using am117au ‘s ancillary fan would help increase the flow through the radiator at slow speeds, or being stopped. And, FWIW, The Maserati Club of California is selling replacement AC compressors that are modern, more quiet, and more efficient than stock, so if you want better AC, that's on the table, too. Hoses for r134 have to be fabricated, I believe.

 

Please see post #449 on the Bora thread as a starting point

 

Well that's a horse of another color. Get the fans and radiator upgraded. I never did the fans but I did the radiator and even so 90F+ up and down hills will get your car very warm. Your car, mine and Art's are the same late model configuration so you should expect similar results. What they do in long hot drives is heat soak the engine compartment and no amount of fans fixes that. So drive at night or very early in the morning and later at night. Or trailer it this time till you get it fettled the way you like.

I got the flier for those AC compressors but that's for front engine cars like the Ghibli, Indy, Mexico with cable drive for the water pump integrated. You can put a Sanden unit in the Bora. There are adapter brackets for replacing the York compressors.

NOPE I was wrong about these they talked about the screwy water pumps but they only showed the Valeo AC compressors. A bit expensive.

 

Apparently the part number for the compressor is the same as the QP....

 

What kind of hose fittings do they use. I had a lot of trouble with the beveled style as the engine moves up and down so much it always made those come loose and I'd loose all the coolant.

 

Haven’t opened the box yet.

 

Is it R12, R134 or what?

I can't get their Youtube video to open but the photos look like the connectors are roto-loc style.

 

R134. And no, they aren't giving it away, for sure, but if parts availability becomes a real issue, then having one will seem cheap.