308 injection to carbs or EFI?

Why would you go backwards and put Victorian era technology on the car? Carbs were terrible at best. EFI is a huge part of why modern cars are making horsepower never dreamed of when cars had carburetors. Leave those for museum displays where they belong.

And there was just another thread on the same subject. CIS did not slow the cars down. The low compression, lawn mower cams and lack of ignition advance did. No fuel injection will cure that.

 

It really is. Reread my post.

 

Brian's point is that just changing the CIS on a 308i-2V to carbs or EFI would do very little to increase the power output -- carbs would be about a wash, and EFI would only add a few HP. To take advantage of going to carbs or EFI would require changing the cams to be much more aggressive with far more overlap (so big $s needed). Then, once you've done that, keeping the low compression ratio doesn't make much sense (so more big $s for that). Do agree that everyone should do as they please, but the best way to "wake-up" a 308i-2V is to sell it and buy a 308QV or maybe a 355 (I do like seeing 355 powerplants installed in a 308, but that's not cheap either.)

 

I'm a mid-year 911 guy too, and for those cars it seems the biggest benefit to ditching the CIS or even the EFI and going to a carb setup is throttle response. It makes the car feel more peppy. I don't think the 308/328 needs more HP, it just needs more zip. Carbs may do that and sound better to boot.

 

If you say so. Read into it whatever appeals to you.

 

To pass the smog laws in that period the cams were drastically changed. That was done while carbs were still in use so there is a very big difference between late and early US carbed cars. The ignition used on CIS cars in the USA had very timid advance curves. Ferrari was always very timid about compression ratios until really the 355 except on the race cars. After modifying many the V8s really respond to big changes in compression. Heads on all the 2v v8s are the same.

I admit it. I grew up doing 6 carb motors and do it very well but does not change my antipathy for them They had no place on the automobile since the late 50s when we had workable gasoline fuel injection in all of the industrial nations. At their very best they do a mediocre job. Since the late 50s even the only race cars using carbs are due to the rules.

 

Here's solid feedback data, 2V engine. Piston change to 10.5:1 CR, mild cam change and EFI nets a ~30/30 hp/tq increase. Done that one a couple times. Increase is in the bottom/mid range. Improves acceleration from a stop and around town driving. The downside is cost, the parts are just about $10k.. the balance point is that sure you could get very aggressive on CR11:1, wild cams for the same price point.. But now it's no longer street friendly and it's aggressive enough to now be in need of a clutch upgrade... More $$$.

I'm not against any of that, I rather enjoy finding new ways to make more power out of these engines. But for each option there is a trade-off. As long as people go into it with eyes open and aware of that then there should be no surprises.

328 is a great option for more civility and power for those looking for a simple upgrade. Highly recommend that. For those who prefer the look of the 308 and or want updated power etc... Just be aware that there is no inexpensive way to do it. Really wish ferrari had used L or D jet instead of K.. would have made the EFI upgrade a 1000 times easier.

 

Hi, I'm really interested in converting my 308 to EFI.
Did some cars before (lotus/Alfa Romeo) and the system has nog secrets to me.
If I look at my 308 QV (USA specs) then y=the biggest problem would be the placing of the injectors near the throttle body, especially the fuel rail.
There is already a mounting for the throttle position sensor and the TDC sensor should be made with a bracket on the distribution cap. 60-2 toothed ring on the crankshaft pulley and then the biggest part is done.
Things as MAP, air intake temp etc aren't that difficult, even the Idle regulator will not be that difficult (instead of the original air regulator).
Ignition maps are in the Ferrari manual and with the wide band lambda sensor fuel maps are quiet easy.

So is there any body who has made a nice fuel rail and injector placement and are there any pictures?

 

I've built 5 or 6 or these over the years...its neat buy not reversible.

For crank pickup I added 33 pins to the back of the flywheel on a couple to make it a 36-1 and use 1 of the original picks. Again neat but this is sort for reversible as the pins can be removed I guess.
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Nice! You putted the injectors as deep as possible.. didn't think about that option !
If I do so I ant it to be reversable... so this winter I will have a better look on "how"

This is what a friend of me made:

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Yes, as low as possible and you need to use the short pico style injectors. I set them up with about 1/2mm below the o-ring in the manifold and about the same above it in the rail. It just fits, I cut a little off the top of the rail to clear the throttle linkage or you could add a little spacer between the plenum and manifold. I forget which TPS that is...GM I think? but its been a while, but works with the TB shaft as is, I just add a couple mounting bosses to screw it onto the TB.

Many people use a in front of the balancer, its a fine setup. I pin the flywheel because its neater not better.

 

Thanks!!
it certainly is! But it means engine out?? I will sort out the part of the fuel rail... will be winter... or if I got that damned CIS not working properly

 

Change your ignition curve.
This is the curve for my '79 368 GTS. Yes, its bigger than yours and has higher compression, but the curve should work well on your car.
You will probably have to get diff ign control box, and maybe mod your dizzy, i don't know squat about the CIS cars.

Doug

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I would defintly run a wideband to monitor the mixture and even a knocksensor to see whats happening... its an expensive engine !

 

No need to pull the engine to pull the flywheel.

Timing wise QV like a little less than the 2v....32 maybe 33 should do it but the dyno will tell you, other than that the curve I used look pretty much the same as Doug's for WOT.....more timing at partial throttle.

 

That does not surprise me one bit.

On the same (large CI) small block Chev motor, changing the heads to better breathing/flowing head necessitated the timing be backed off about 4 degrees. Dyno time isn't cheap, but it sure helps you dial things in. Note that one must retard the timing about 2 degrees from what the dyno says gives the most power, for street use.
Doug

 

here's some ignition curves, the QV/328 is right from the WSM.. the 308 is the baseline map I came up with on the dyno, it's a very good starting point that only requires on-road tweaking due to shift/load points between 3rd and 5th for cruising matching up. ideally a 3rd or 4th map that took into account gears would be best, but not a cost effective option. all my other maps are build and dyno specific.
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aftermarket EFI, Link is my go-to normally for the ECU, the rest of the parts are custom fabricated.