Don’t top off your fuel if you can help it. | FerrariChat

Don’t top off your fuel if you can help it.

Discussion in '360/430' started by CoreyNJ, May 24, 2021.

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  1. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
    New Jersey Shore
    So I live in NJ where generally you aren’t allowed to pump your own gas. With a Ferrari if I go to my local station they let me pump it myself but technically that’s not allowed by NJ law.

    Anyway let me explain what this has to do with topping off your fuel….

    My CEL P0442 came back. Previously both check valves were replaced when the CEL was in with this code back in the winter. When they were removed they didn’t seem to be “wet” so only the valves were replaced, but today my mechanic troubleshooted the new throwing of the code and the check valves were both internally filled with fuel. Luckily they still seem to work when checked with a vacuum pump when the fuel was removed. But it seems that I need a charcoal canister which is causing the CEL issue.

    I asked how this happens and he said if you keep filling up your fuel tank past the point where the pump first shuts off eventually you’ll fill up the hoses, valves and the canister with fuel. The fuel will break down the charcoal and it can cause leaks and other issues with the emission system.

    So apparently this happens a bunch in NJ because the guys pump gas for you and they try to bring it to to the nearest dollar if you pay cash or if you are on CC they sometimes still try to fill up as much as they can to increase the sale.

    Now I’m pretty sure it wasn’t me who kept overfilling it because I usually pay cash and generally just chuck $20 or $30 bucks in when I hit a 1/4 tank because I haven’t done any long trips so I don’t think I have ever fully filled up the tank in the past year and a few months since I have had the car. Plus I’m also afraid that if you overfill the tank it might spill on my car so I always tell the guy if I can’t pump it myself that they shouldn’t top it off it will spit at them (my GT3 has been doing that since new)

    Anyway. Figured I warn everyone not to “top” off their tank and just stop when it shuts off.

    Cheers,
    Corey


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    armedferret, hessank, Level7 and 7 others like this.
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Exactly Corey


    I only do 3/4 of a tank now


    Had to change my carbon canister on my 512tr


    Thanks for documenting it for others

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  3. CCRider66

    CCRider66 Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
    454
    Sussex, WI
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    Brian
    I top off every other week with no issues. 35,000 miles and daily driving.
     
  4. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    John Napoli
  5. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
    New Jersey Shore
    Update to the issue. Car is at the mechanic and the diagnostic pump is also full of fuel. So he has one coming on Monday.

    So this issue caused the check valves, charcoal canister and diagnostic pumps to need replacement.


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  6. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    Thanks for the heads up. Is the charcoal a US emissions device or is it in all 430 production?
     
  7. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
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    It does appear in the parts diagram for all 430.


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  8. Jb-Slow

    Jb-Slow Karting

    May 11, 2020
    203
    Don't top off anything ever, its not a Ferrari thing, it's everything built in the last 30 years.
     
  9. 01silver360fan

    Feb 11, 2021
    39
    I understand the advice about not topping off, but my 01' 360 Modena almost never fills up even close to the full amount on the first try... Typically when I start the pump, it will fill 5 gallons, then auto-stop.. and I can often fill another 5 gallons by "topping up"

    Does anyone else have this issue? How do you prevent topping up with this?

    My P0042 CEL code also just came on and now I'm wondering if this is what has happened.
     
  10. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
    482
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Rod
    Funny how this thread is up. I recently filled up my tank and the CEL has been on. I tried turning off the battery switch hoping it would reset. Did it twice. Didn't work. Will resetting resolve the issue? I only have 13.8k miles on it. 2005.
     
  11. Jb-Slow

    Jb-Slow Karting

    May 11, 2020
    203
    If your evap canister is full of fuel, it's full of fuel. No battery tricks will fix that. Pull it out and see if there's anything inside, could be fuel or the charcoal could have came out.
     
  12. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
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    Could also be like me.

    It was both check valves, the canister and the diagnostics pump which were all full of fuel. I also had a bad ‘o’ ring on one fuel tank that must have gone once everything was replaced.

    So if the canister is full of fuel it could be a bunch of other components also involved up and downstream.


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  13. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
    482
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    Thanks JB Slow and Corey NJ.

    Did you smell gas though. I don’t smell any gas and it’s been two weeks. It would seem any excess fuel would have evaporated since that’s what the evap canister is for?

    Car runs fine and now only has 3/4 tank or slightly more.

    Any ballpark range as to cost to fix. Thanks
     
  14. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 21, 2012
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    This problem is not specific to just certain models of F-cars.

    Recently went thru this experience on an older Toyota Highlander. Overfilling at the pump definitely triggers it; the fuel system design layout and part sizes apparently makes some fuel systems more tolerant (or intolerant) of the overfill condition. Hot weather may also be a contributing factor. Charcoal canisters are not cheap. On a Toyota, it came to about $1,500.
     
  15. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    On my 2015 Porsche Boxster its also recommended that you don’t top off, for the same reason.


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  16. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    I didn't smell gas... I thought I did once, but it turned out to be a gas can in my garage.
     
  17. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
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    Rod
    thanks for info all.
     
  18. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    Hot weather could be a factor. Like anything else, fuel expands with temperature increases. So, a full tank could overflow a bit if filled on a cool evening, parked, and temperatures are high the next day.


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  19. SCEye

    SCEye F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,950
    Norcal - Peninsula
    thanks...
    learned something new.
     
  20. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
    482
    Orange County
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    Rod
    Update - got a shop to clear the CEL and it’s been off for over a month and I’ve driven probably 150 miles or so.

    I took the car in for smog check and unfortunately it didn’t pass. The fuel evap does come up. The smog guy said to drive the car more and try to keep under 60 mph and under 3k rpm. Anybody know how many miles to drive under these conditions. Another 100 miles?

    I’m looking into a scanner tool now. I see some recommending Autel AP200.
     
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  21. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    Jul 12, 2013
    5,035
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    Steve
    I have a 2003 360 F1 Spider. I fill the tank to about 3/4 full, take it out on the freeway at a steady 55-60 MPH for about 10 miles. Smog ready every time for the past 9 years.
     
  22. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
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    Rod
    Thanks for the info.
     
  23. the_dan

    the_dan Karting
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    Nov 6, 2016
    136
    Hong Kong
    This is interesting. My 360 has lived all its life in Hong Kong where you’re not allowed pump your own gas. And the pump guys are pretty diligent about absolutely brimming it every time. I get the odd CEL that my mechanic can’t trace (and the car runs great).
     
  24. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
    2,004
    New Jersey Shore
    have your mechanic pull the check valves to see if they have fuel in them. If they are wet with fuel, then you have a problem.
     
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  25. F430Rod

    F430Rod Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2007
    482
    Orange County
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    Rod
    Another update. I bought the Autel AP200. Pretty good scanner but it isn’t fully obvious in how to check to see if the car is smog ready. Nothing in the menu that can be seen.

    Some online pdf instructions state that so long is everything passes and you get a green light then all good to go.

    I took it to smog yesterday and it did pass. This was of course all after I drove the car as best I could going under 60 and under 3k. It was torture. It’s like only looking but not touching a beautiful woman.

    Just glad this headache is over with. Time to enjoy the car. .

    Oh and I never top off the fuel anymore but it’s a pain always putting in gas after almost each drive. Oh well. Not that bad I guess.
     

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