Your ultimate spec F40?

Euro spec?


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yes

 

From a twisted pile of charred steel and pools of aluminium, through to a no miles garage queen, there is a buyer for every iteration of F40 out there, its a healthy market that covers all tastes and desires, I see no reason why any buyer or car should simply be pigeon holed into only one specific version.

You pay your money, you make your choice, you enjoy whichever floats your boat.

The OP clearly knows what he really wants, and I am sure he will either find or produce that example, and fully enjoy it.

 

No attempts to pigeon-hole at all, the OP invited feedback, so he's getting experienced input.

It goes without saying, people should do absolutely whatever they wish with their money regardless of others advise or think, you only have to look at some of the cars out there to see that people are not shy in that regard.

All is good.

 

Agreed.
He asked!

 

The title is "Your ultimate spec F40"

It ends with "If you were in a position to specify your ultimate F40 - what would you go for?"

Go out and buy an original untouched example is not "specifying", anyone with sufficient funds can do that without any imagination being involved what so ever.

The F40 was engineered nearly 35 years ago, and based mainly on components and construction used by Ferrari at least 10 years before that.

Would Ferrari incorporate all the advancements in technology made in the 35 years since to create an even better version if they were to build an ultimate example today? Of course they would.

The OP threw into the ring some of these, and it could have opened up the debate as to what else could be done.

No way is an original untouched F40 its ultimate spec, it may be a preferred spec, its most valuable spec, the easiest spec to sell on and make money from, it may be how someone simply likes the nostalgia of the car with their rose tinted glasses on, it may well be the easiest version to jump into and collect the groceries with.

Would NASA send people to the moon today in the same rocket from 1968? It did the job back then so why make any changes.is a silly argument.

Would you still prefer to carry around a Motorola brick? or read this thread on the latest smart phone?

No one is going to tinker with an original F40 these days anyway, and there are plenty of those to go around, many people who say they love the F40 look down on anything that's less than a perfect untouched example, and again there are many of those that will never go back to how they were, so what could be done to those examples to bring them into the 2020's is the underlying question the OP is alluding to.

There are enough threads here extolling the virtues of original and untouched F40s so why not expand the horizons on just this thread as to what in theory could be done, and discuss the merits and downsides of such changes.

 

Isn't that what's happening?

 

I will attempt to expand the debate as to what could be updated/improved, with fueling as an example..

Back in the mid 80s injector size and ecu technology was pretty basic with regards turbo engines. huge amounts of fuel were required at high boost and high revs, and this could not be controlled at low revs causing over fueling, bore wash etc etc if only one large injector was fitted.

Ferrari and others went the twin injector route to try to combat this, the problem though is that if one of those twin injectors fail on a particular cylinder the ecu will not be aware of this, resulting in leaning out and expensive damage.

As the cars get older, less used the risk increases of injector failure.

These days ecu technology is advanced enough that it can control one big injector instead of needing two throughout the boost and rev range and trim each individual cylinder thus removing that risk.

It is a simple enough upgrade to incorporate into the F40.

 

Simple? How would you do it?

 

sometimes classics can have universally acceptable modifications, for example the e43 m3 csl has bad brakes. an extremely large amount of owners upgraded them with AP replacements, the market doesn't care.

I personally would never look down upon an f40 with upgraded brakes, especially since they are there for safety.

 

I'd do anything I like to it that makes it a better car for me, as long as the original looks aren't changed and it's reversible.

 

The other problem with the Weber Marelli system is that it did not have enough drivers to run all 16 injectors independently, with modern injectors now available then one large one would be able to provide more than enough fuel for each cylinder, this could be fitted into the existing fuel rail, the other original injector could remain to act as a plug but not be wired up. (The Weber can be converted to a Super 8 which would add the option of controlling all 16 injectors, but its a bit old school these days and still has the risk of one injector clogging up and leaning out the cylinder.

A modern ecu from the likes of Motec, Life, Haltech etc could be retro fitted with a suitable loom to run those 8 large injectors without it being obvious, the existing ecu and loom are stand alone from the main wiring harness so could be taken out and boxed up (along with the standard exhaust back box, as it seems a Tubi is somehow an acceptable non factory mod).

Using such an ecu would also open up a whole raft of extras to aid drivability as a bonus that are now common place on modern supercars.

However a flagship Ferrari should really be running a n/a v12, slot one of those into the bay instead is a better option!

 

Yes, but the OP goes on to specifically say that he'd like to convert an F40 into an F40LM, to which, some of us advise against doing so for reasons stated.

There's room for all opinions, meanwhile the OP has the option to do whatever they ultimately decide to do regardless of what anyone says here.

 

this statement is true.
and nullifies everything else you said thereafter.

agreed that nobody is going to tinker with a real f40....therefore all of the suggestions you made about how to improve the f40 are for naught.

basically if we take all of the suggestions made on this thread about how to improve a car that nobody will ever tinker with to that extent, we end up with a completely different car.

we end up with a mclaren Senna.

 

Re read what I said, I did not say no one is going to tinker with a real F40, I said no one is going to tinker with an original (as in condition) F40 however there are many already modified or damaged F40s out there for which updating items as I suggested would not reduce their already altered from original state.

The OP is on the hunt for one of these, either already converted to his desired spec or ripe for such.

I am aware of a number of such cars, either in the planning stage, currently being converted or now being enjoyed in their new guise, many of the owners are actually on here but sensibly keep out of the flak.

I get that many people are more than happy with a standard, untouched F40, however once they have stated such there is not much more they can add when the thread is actually about what updates could be carried out to produce the ultimate F40, I have thrown a few into the ring, now its for others to add to such a list if they choose to.

 

Plexi-windows standard F40 that has at least 20,000 miles maintained by one of the renowned F40 specialists with long-term experience, they'll likely have already done the improvements you need.

A known weakness is the porous magnesium bell-housing, this'll probably already have been re-lined with the aerospace material everyone uses these days.

I like the standard brakes, as tested in a car where they are working correctly by someone who can use them in the short film in the other thread and posted yesterday: "the brakes are quite good". Once you get into changing brakes you introduce a whole range of variables, I just find swapping brakes is an unnecessary expense.

The tanks and ancillary fuel in the Eu/ROW cars are a concern, but if you're worried about monitoring & maintaining them, you can one of the specialists install aluminum tanks which will last your lifetime.

I like to have an open exhaust on mine, the car does breathe better and come on the boost just a little bit quicker which is nice around town, not to mention a more pleasant sound.

These are all minor things, mostly maintenance items that keep a standard F40 working well on the road, and don't change it's guise from the road-going car it is.

Hope this helps.

 

Actually, I only mention the plexi-windows to address your desire for LM features, personally I prefer the wind-up windows, a lot more practical for use on the street, all the F40s I have owned have had the latter. As regards exhausts, I have only tried Tubi exhausts, both the sport and LM pipes.

 

Here is a great you tube video explaining exactly what I mentioned regarding fueling improvements that could be made for an F40

Owners may well think there stock F40 is running ok, when that is far from the case in reality.

 

I haven't had time to read or respond to all this till now.

There is absolutely no need to mess with, modify or replace the Weber Marelli system IMO, you simply want to make sure it's operating optimally.

Making a conversion to a Super 8 and using an ECU from Motec, Haltech etc retro-fitted with a suitable loom to run 8 large injectors? Taking the main wiring harness out and boxing it up? Can of worms IMO and completely unnecessary.

That said, your comment about the iconic F40 that "a flagship Ferrari should really be running a n/a v12, slot one of those into the bay instead is a better option!" gives your preceding comments some context though.

Of the @ 70 F40s we have sold, many of which we remain in contact with owners to be on hand with guidance & advice in helping them ensure their cars are running sweetly, not once has there been an instance in the past few decades where anyone has found it necessary to seek alternatives to the Weber Marelli system, this speaks for itself and mirrors the experience we have with our own F40s.

Again, if you are a serial tinkerer or a modder who can't be helped, then by all means go right ahead, your car your money, but the reality is, changing the fuel system ion an F40 is redundant, that's the advice we would give all our clients - not that it has ever come up.

This is F40 87219, I used to own this car, it now belongs to a Texas-based client.

There's nothing with it, perhaps it's running a bit rich and needs a minor tune which the Ferrari dealer where the car is actually serviced can easily do. Bear in mind this video was set up as a promo for the services of the individual leading the discussion, it doesn't mean anything other than an adjustment needs to be done. I know this car has been properly serviced by Ferrari of Houston and Ferrari of Austin, they can take care of the tune no problem. Local to me, Paul B at Ferrari of Newport Beach trained on F40s when they were new and tunes every one that passes through his Service bay to optimum operating status. The Weber Marelli system can be re-calibrated and serviced, this is routinely done with innumerable 288 GTOs and F40s.

 

Interesting, but clearly this car has issues as discussed in the video. All easily fixed.

I don't think I'd be messing with it, but I can understand why one would want to.

I've had MoTec on a BB, F355 and a 308, so I understand the urge.

 

My ultimate spec would be a wingless F40

Looks so much more fluid. That squarish wing is horrendous, it seems to come straight outta a Japanese toy car from the 80's

Like this it's a 80's enzo. Or the same spirit as the original countach before it was ruined by steroids

And it has a slightly "long tail " look

I don't care about aerodynamics.

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I remind you again, the title is "what is your ultimate spec F40"

What I have highlighted is an area where 30 plus year old technology "COULD" be improved with modern electronic controls, not "MUST" be.

If listened to properly, the chap talks the driver through the fluctuating lean to rich mixture and explains why that is, he then goes onto explain how the system on say a 458 is much more sophisticated and can learn in real time to adapt its control, which is something the L8 Marelli system simply does not have the ability to do.

The mixture screw he refers to is a simple global modifier that leans or richens the mixture throughout the rev range.

On that particular example the pair of ecu are clearly not balanced so that one bank is operating to different parameters to the other, or some of the injectors may not have matched spray patterns.

The owner clearly had some concerns hence he called in the tech, the tech talks the driver through the fluctuating lambda reading, who also shows concerns.

Despite all this evidence, to the untrained eye and ear, the car seems fine, when clearly it needs attention, a modern ecu would be warning the driver long before it had got to that point.