348 - help with a few issue (CEL code and hunting idle) | FerrariChat

348 help with a few issue (CEL code and hunting idle)

Discussion in '348/355' started by bellwilliam, Jul 2, 2021.

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  1. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    hi, all: bought a 91 348 a while ago, but just had time to get into it. Need help diagnosing the following issues.

    have a couple of issues:
    engine rpm will sometimes hunt at idle
    engine sometimes die sitting at traffic lights. once it wouldn't restart till a few minutes later.

    car is stock, other than aftermarket CAT (new).

    I have the following codes, on BOTH banks. CEL come and ago while driving:

    4121 (CAT temp)
    1211 (MAF)
    1114 (Lambda sensor)
    1121 (RPM sensor)

    4121 - I looked in the engine compartment, it is missing both CAT ECUs.
    1211 - MAF sensor, I've cleaned it once. same thing.
    1114 - O2 sensor ?
    1121 - read here, just ignore it, because I checked the CEL without engine running ?

    I should bring up 1 thing. When I first got the car, it had no CEL for the first 100 miles (and no hunting idle). Being smart :) I used Stabiliant 22 on electrical connectors I have easy access to. First time using Stabiliant 22, so I probably used way too much. Then CEL started appearing right after, I don't believe in coincidence..... I've since used electrical contact cleaner, small nylon brushes, and let the connector off and dry for over a week. Same thing.

    thanks for the help.
     
  2. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,749
    North Wiltshire, UK
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  3. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,637
    Central NJ
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    Eric
    I used to stabilant everywhere and I mean everywhere.

    My car used to have that weird idle hunt when I started it when it was cold and as it warmed up it settled down.

    I'd replace the cam position sensor to start with and 02 sensors. Also if balance the intakes. It's in the wsm.

    Lambda one is tough, it could be fpr, injectors, fuel pumps, coils, igniters etc.

    Personally I think it's bad MAF's. That was my issue after replacing everything else. I happened to have 2 new ones.

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  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,564
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
    Strange symptoms. All these codes on both banks. I can’t think of any single fault that would cause this other than perhaps an electrical fault (including misuse of Stabilant). Things common to both banks such as bad fuel or vacuum issues are not going to cause MAF codes.

    Referring to the MAFs, when you said you cleaned “it”, did you mean to say cleaned “them”?

    Regarding electrics, it would have to be something major, such as battery/alternator or ignition to affect the sensors on both banks.

    Can the 348 ECUs generate codes for low/intermittent voltages?
     
  5. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Has the battery been run flat or disconnected lately?

    Clear the stored codes.

    Maybe you just need to "re-initialize" the system. Easy. No cost. Numerous posts here.

    Hope it's simple!
     
  6. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    yes, I meant I've cleaned both of them with a spray MAF cleaner.
     
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  7. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    no, battery hasn't been flat. I've cleared the stored codes a few times. especially after each "cleaning" of the connectors.

    I have a feeling it is too much Stabiliant 22. more must be better !! not sure how to clean them off other than using contact cleaners (spray).
     
  8. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    I did call Fuel Injection Corp at Tracy CA, today. They quoted me $250 per MAF "rebuild" and 1 week turn around. price is better than I thought.....
     
  9. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Pardon the question. You say you "have" the following codes on both banks. You didn't say you "had" the codes. If the system is re-initialized properly, the codes should be temporarily erased from the boxes (no codes showing) unless the same fault symptoms exist after the engine is restarted and warmed up. Just disconnecting the battery doesn't do it. It's supposed to remain disconnected for something like 10 minutes (it's been a long time since I went through this) before the stored codes are erased. Just want to make sure the easy possibility is covered first. If your battery has been left disconnected for the proper length of time, and the faults are still present, then move on.
     
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  10. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    each time I cleared the codes with the push button on each of the ECU, by pushing down for 10+ seconds. CEL would come on after a few minute I restart the car.
    is that sufficient, or do I need to disconnect the battery too ?
     
  11. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    You have to read through all the ECU codes first and get to the end in order to clear them.

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  12. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    yes I did that.
     
  13. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    Aug 4, 2006
    8,281
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    Vince V
    Those codes are not telling you anything other than your engine is missing and the cat is getting hot. Please refer to my thread on FPR's because you are describing exactly my issue that we recently cured. Chances are one or both of your fuel pressure regulators are failing and excess fuel is being delivered to either Cylinder No. 1 or 5. Your MAFs are probably just fine. Do check to make sure that their resistance is at spec - see thread on this easy check. Stabillant is not going to cause your issues nor cure them, however, it can't hurt. Get a timing light and check which of your cylinders is missing at idle. My guess it is going to be 1 or 5 because that is where the FPRs dump excess fuel from the fuel rail. They are being flooded and consequently misfire. You should notice that the engine seems to run better at high rpm, over 3000. Youi should pull the spark plug from 1 and 5 to verify its condition. If it is black and sooty, bingo. I am pretty sure you are suffering from the same situation I was in for the past 7 months.
     
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  14. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Unless there is a loose banjo fitting on the fuel pump supply line in the tank. I had that. Diagnoses exactly like stuck fpr.. Ugh.

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  15. bellwilliam

    bellwilliam Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2014
    398
    thanks all. My issue turn out to be Stabiliant 22. I must of used too much of it. I cleaned the electrical connectors a couple more times. CEL started going away. 500 miles later, CEL are all gone !!

    not sure about the hot idle issue (engine dies, and difficult to restart). As the weather has gotten cooler. not able to replicate it.
     
  16. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    Difficult to restart when hot can be voith grease issue. Its not related to why it does however. Try balancing the intakes per the manual. People monkey with those screws over time.
     
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  17. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
    343
    Westchester New York
    Full Name:
    Mark k
    If I’m reading this right you cleaned out most if not all of the “stab-22” and the CEL stop coming on ??????

    I can see if to much is used crossover voltage can probably happen do to it’s capability of making a better electrical connection but I never see that before but then again most do not use a lot because of how expensive it is lol

    And I agree with the other post a lot of guys play with the balancing of the intake so that would not be a bad idea to look at and see if someone had the ECU’s flashed not to see the CAT’s ECM’s just removing should put the CEL on all the time —- I seen a car where the (aka tuner) change setting so that the CEL will not come on at all (he use HP tuner program) and the car was driving so bad and the owner had the engine overhauled for no reason thinking something was wrong after sending his ECM’s out to the guys in Florida (I can’t remember the name of the place I think it’s euro specialist) to find out the tuner did what he did lol





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  18. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,726
    WI
    Ahhh yes, the old Dave Helm's gold connector kit nonsense.

    I ripped all of those out of my car and re-pinned it ala @ernie stooge style 9 years ago. Lots of problems disappeared.

    But that whole episode between Dave and Ernie was pretty major goings on back in the day.

    Deoxit D5, 100L and a tooth brush can cover a lot of ground as well.
     
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  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    That was crazy of a toss up. Let's not do that again.
     
  20. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    Deoxit really helps clean up for certain.
     
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