So it’s time for new speculations : Rear engined V12 top of the normal range in 2023. Laferrari replacement with a different engine.( new V6 ?)
Ferrari still comes in below the 10k units within the EU so the rules are different. Also while the SF is out, the GTS and Comp is still there. You can't say the 812 production is halted just because one type of 812 is no longer in production. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
812GTS allocations are hard to acquire, impossible is some localities, so, for all effective purposes it is out of production, cannot be ordered, existing orders simply need to be concluded and delivered. 812c/cA are not regular series production and therefore are not relevant Let me know the next time you can order a regular series V12, at this point, seems to be at least 3 years into the future, if that is not the definition of "halted" what is your definition? Is it this: The factory is not making a V12 engine for any purpose? After all, the Monza (not regular series) also remains "in production" at this time... and, once the FUV is released and in production, the 10K annual production (already exceeded once in 2019) will likely be exceeded every year hence...
As of today you can still order a 812 GTS. Maybe not in all countries but where I live it is possible. Marcel Massini
Agreed. My dealer offered me (unprompted) a 24 hour test drive in their GTS. Which I am happily going to do next week. I presume they're not doing this to market anything else to me.
I think so. "I always mention that for me, a full hybridization of a V-12 naturally aspirated engine, from a technical point of view, doesn't make so much sense," Leiters said, and added that going hybrid makes more sense with a downsized turbocharged V-8. He thinks that a 48-volt mild-hybrid system might work with a V-12 at some point in the future, but for now, the V-12 will remain unassisted". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp36488146/ferrari-still-developing-v-12-engines/ ----- Interesting video if you want to have a look at the dealership configurator.
Assuming the quote below was correctly translated from Italian, it assures me that the V12 will live on at Ferrari in some format. The V12 is a rightful source of pride at Ferrari and they wouldn’t be able to explain to their customers how a competitor is able to do it while they can not or will not. This leads me to believe the SF90 will be replaced by a mid engine V12 hybrid in several years after the Aventador replacement launches. We may only see a V6 and V12 (and EV) at Ferrari in the future. Lamborghini - Stephan Winkelman "We have a clear path, I'm not saying anything new, sustainability concerns everyone and super sports cars too. We follow a three-phase path: we are still celebrating the internal combustion engine and in 2023-2024 the whole range will be electrified. They will keep our engine. historic (the V12), but they will all be plug-in hybrids.”
Well I hear what Lamborghini is saying but at Ferrari as Enzo said I married the V12, this is a company steeped in tradition just like Porsche one founded in 1947 the other in 1948 no other current sports car company has those credentials, these two companies are the torchbearers for the sport car enthiatists I feel I must hang my hat with them for the duration of the ICE engines.
Absolutely. A new N/A, unassisted, even more powerful V12 is currently under development, according to Leiters. Even with the mandatory GPF, that's great news for everyone.
I may be in the minority, but I’ll forever be a potential buyer of any NA, non-hybrid V12 model that Ferrari makes, including mid-engined please, regardless of whether it can win hp or straightline acceleration wars with soulless electrics or heavy, overly complex hybrids. [emoji634]
I had the same thought a short time ago. As a replacement for the SF90 that would also fit the rumored timeline for the new V12.
Not sure why Ferrari should ditch the hybrid V8, after all the R&D and categorically saying that the SF90 now represents the top of their lineup, after years of front-engined V12 dominance. They can all coexist: TT V6, TT V8 and V12, which will maybe find its way under the Purosangue's hood as well.
It’s hard for me to imagine the SF90 sitting alongside a new mid engine V12. Which car would be the top of their lineup? Perhaps the V8 will be reserved for the SUV and Roma?
I think it will all depend on the power level they can achieve with the next generation V12. If we are indeed talking about a NA V12 without any major form of hybridization it's rather hard to believe they can top the power output of the SF90 and therefore might not be regarded as the new "top of the range" supercar, which is a title mainly related to maximum power output. An other thought might come up if we think about the current situation in which we have 3 mid-engine models in parallel with the clear message that the 296 doesn't replace the F8 as initially thought my most of us. In the press conference Enrico Galliera mentioned the F8 would be the option for those who like to have reasonable power output with a lightweight chassis. Once the F8 is out of production a non hybrid V12 might fill that gap of the portfolio, being the lightweight option without all the battery stuff but still having reasonable power and a special driving experience. Kind of a Porsche GT3 for Ferrari.
Where did you find "unassisted"? The renditions of that interview only indicate new V12 that will not be track-only and that "we have to do a lot of research and development"...
There's this one: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/ferrari-naturally-aspirated-v12-heart-company snippet: And Leiters added that he’s confident there are a few more ‘stages’ left in this V12 for yet more performance. “Definitely we have to do a lot of research and development to maintain – as Enrico mentioned before – this pillar of Ferrari,” he said, noting the conflict between keeping the V12 alive and meeting ever-changing regulations. “At the same time we are working to other technologies in order to make sure we are prepared for the future,” Galliera said. “We know how to make a normally-aspirated engine – a V12. We know how to make turbo engines – like the V8 in the F8. We know how to produce hybrid engines – like the SF90. “So we have the technologies to decide what is going to be the best option for the future,” he added. And this one: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36488146/ferrari-still-developing-v-12-engines/ snippets: "We are working a lot on the V-12 family because we think this is a very important pillar of Ferrari, with very special characteristics," Leiters said. "[W]e have a lot of ideas to answer to future challenges and regarding both emissions and regarding customer requirements and new products." ---- the V-12 won't have electric-assist anytime soon. ---- "I always mention that for me, a full hybridization of a V-12 naturally aspirated engine, from a technical point of view, doesn't make so much sense," Leiters said, and added that going hybrid makes more sense with a downsized turbocharged V-8. He thinks that a 48-volt mild-hybrid system might work with a V-12 at some point in the future, but for now, the V-12 will remain unassisted. And then there is this: https://**********.com/p/ferrari-are-already-planning-a-AIipfbx1TY6jdpTng7cDQg?iid=A3aZLHWrTFSM3bqm6bRLig (not sure why f-chat disapproves of 'drive tribe' website, but, here is another link to it https://tinyurl.com/ya7b4b7v snippet: So, does that mean this was the 6.5-litre naturally aspirated V12’s last hurrah? Ferrari’s technical boss, Michael Leiters, doesn’t believe so. An Autocar report states that Leiters is confident about the V12 having more life and years left. “Definitely we have to do a lot of research and development to maintain - as Enrico mentioned before - this pillar of Ferrari,” he said. But apparently, a more powerful version is in the works. Upon being asked if a more potent version than Competizione will ever come out, Leiters teased, “We’re working on that”. While many would imagine Ferrari’s most powerful V12 could be injected into a track-only vehicle, Ferrari’s chief marketing and commercial officer, Enrico Galliera, quickly ruled that possibility out, stating, “We’re thinking about something that will be visible in the future”. If the new car is touted to carry a shrieking V12, but for the road of the future, the chances of it being a spiritual successor to the LaFerrari hypercar seem high. It’s been over eight years since the V12 hybrid came out, and only the SF90 in the current line-up holds some sort of a torch to it. But with the new car possessing Ferrari’s most powerful V12 yet, the output figures with even the slightest of electric assistance could be above the 1000hp mark. The Maranello-based carmaker already went to great lengths to upgrade the 6.5-litre V12 in the Competizione from the standard Superfast model to put out an extra 30hp. Extracting 819hp instead of Superfast’s 789hp meant completely redesigning the engine’s intake system and replacing engine components with lightweight materials. If the forthcoming model does adopt electrical assistance, this could mark the peak of Ferrari’s V12 before it gets sucked into electrification. But until that happens, we do have one thing for sure - the V12 lives! At best, all we know is they are planning on something, most likely will first appear in the next hypercar, because LaF was hybrid, the presumption is next V12 will be too; so, I presume a new V12 will be in the next hypercar, what is not clear at all is if there will be another V12-based regular series car, at present there is no 812 successor, and there may never be, time will tell. But 'will remain unassisted' seems difficult to confirm from the above articles...
Has anyone heard more about the 812C or seen any video / test drive of some sort? I’m really surprised how silent it’s all been wrt to that since it was announced 2 months ago
Varryx (you tube) has a Fiorano track video released Jun 21, testing, nothing else found. All recent print articles are re-hashing. In comparison, the first (autocar) F12TDF test drive was exactly 1 month after the reveal... I presume Ferrari is still making adjustments, but, mostly quiet from the factory video stalkers, maybe the factory is still working on the engine and/or emissions (sound for regulatory compliance). It does seem odd to be so quiet, does not look like that will end anytime soon.. For the 812SF, Autocar also had first test drive, about 4 months after the reveal, so, hopefully 812c test drive happens sometime in September?
Guys, don't forget that Italy has only opened up borders (post Covid) very few days ago. You have no idea how super strict the restrictions were (and some still are). Marcel Massini
