Lotus Emira | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Lotus Emira

Discussion in 'British' started by sainthoo, Jun 14, 2021.

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  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Sounds great.
     
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  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Look at it through these lens. If you wanted an exotic style fun road car to also track as many now do.
    Practicaly no one tracks their exotic ferrari lambo etc, theyre simply too expensive, too precious, too much resale hit, overpowered for track, and grossly expensive to run on track even if you have the $.
    The closest seems to be some Maclaren 600lts I sometimes see running about and I think the hit there is 5-7k per day.

    Porche GT3s we see, cause theyre sub 200k need nothing done to run on track, but still 2.5-3 k per day, and youre depreciating the car really fast.

    The emira, its an exotic in look and feel, at 80k its almost disposable and shouldnt cost more than another lotus to run on track so sub 1k per day.
    On that basis the lotus is an easy choice+looks great, more fun to drive, and enough power for the track, but this is a limited 1500 cars per year market.

    Now some will argue for the vette at 80k too, but the only 80k vette is the current version and thats far more a Gt car, 3600lbs and biased heavily towards road comfort, not really a track style machine.

    If i lived in europe it would be the 2500lbs a110 all the way, but we cant get those here.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't doubt they can sell 1000 - 2000 cars a year world wide. But most people think they want a sports car but in fact, they want a sporty GT car. Therefore this car is very "un-Lotuslike" with power seats, an infotainment system, and leather interior. So much for "weight saving". Tell me how that stuff makes you go faster on a track

    Have Lotus lost their ways or has Lotus just given up the ghost for today's consumers? And the less unique they are, the more difficult for them to make themselves relevant.
     
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  4. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    They probably won't sell well because it's become a frankly niche brand but I think this thing looks tremendous! Like a little Pista.
     
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  5. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    No--Lotus has seen that as much as people say they want a really stripped down, lightweight sports car the reality is that when it comes to putting hard earned money down they do not buy that. At least not so much in USA. Lotus needs to turn a profit and they understand the market. Better to do a slightly heavy "non typical" Lotus and sell more of those (and stay in business) than do another S1 Series Elise type car. I expect that as usual with Lotus, they will come out with more raw, powerful and track focused versions of this car as time goes on. But they need to sell this version first, as it is what most people will buy, will generate income for Lotus and allow them to do some very limited production, more pure sports car versions of this car. But doing that first would cost a lot and produce no money.

    I love this car, but will wait a year or two to get one. By then the bugs will be worked out (or most), we will know which engine/gearbox version is the right one, or if there are other options and I bet there will be a "track focused version" of it, if not a couple "harder" versions available by then. And then I will buy that car, as I want that single purpose, raw sports car. But as a large number of you are saying that they have deposits put down, and are not wanting to wait for a more raw version of the car just proves Lotus was right in doing this version of the car first!
     
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  6. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Ya they took almost every design element from Ferrari and grafted it to an Evora.
     
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  7. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Not a bad strategy in this case.
     
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  8. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    Especially when they do it better than Ferrari!
     
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  9. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    So...manual or dsc gents?
     
  10. KennyH

    KennyH F1 Veteran
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    Manual, thus V6. For a couple of reasons; 1) stick is more fun (especially when it's not used as a daily driver), and 2) this is of the last stick sports cars ever produced - might as well enjoy them while they last.

    If the AMG 4 was also available in stick, what would you choose? Toyota 6 or AMG 4?

    Following a couple of other member's leads, I'm likely putting down a refundable deposit this weekend. If the car gets rave reviews, great, I'll have one available to enjoy in Spring 2022. Green over tan, most likely. TBD if black or silver wheels.
     
  11. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

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    Thanks for this. I'll be holding my breath waiting for official confirmation somewhere of his statement re: EU weight being used. "But actually Lotus quotes the still heavier ‘EU’ weight which adds 75kg for a driver and a bit of luggage. So its actual DIN weight is 1330kg."

    DIN weight (with fluids, ready to run, fuel tank 90% full?) of ~2926 lbs sounds a lot nicer than ~3100 lbs :). Add a titanium aftermarket exhaust and lightweight battery and maybe you're looking at high 2800's... One can hope.

    I had a thought regarding the low (360) hp figure for the i4 engine, given it makes more in stock form on some Mercedes models. For sure Lotus is keeping some extra margin there so that future variants can have power increases, but I wonder too if maybe Lotus is putting a smaller turbo or turbo wheel(s) into the car that might reduce the peak HP but increase engine responsiveness. More responsiveness is a win, but it may be at the expense of our assumption that easy aftermarket tweaks could bring the HP to the mid-to-upper 400's.
     
  12. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

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  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    agreed, theyre losing their USP and pitching right into vette and cayman territory, didnt work for the evora, this car is better but is it good enough. Its a hard battle to win, as no lotus will have the dealer network or percieved quality, so the car will be an off beat choice in the gt category, nor will this car have standout paper metrics in term of acceleration, which puts them back at 2k sales.

    However there is nothing to say that they dont also do a "speciale" version of this car for the true belivers. Reports suggest the car is carrying 60Kg of added tech, so thats 120 lbs to loose right there. Add in different seats bits and bobs they can probably loose 150-200lbs for the hardcore version. That might get them down to 2900lbs and 485 hp for the 4cyl car, another 500-1000 sales, which is probably all theyre lookign for, it will also give them halo. Considder that maclarens are an aquired taste in terms of looks, have equivalnt handling and an extra and arguably excess 100 or so more hp (600lt) for 150k more. .

    In the end the bulk of sales for this car will come from "ferrari/lamborghini' looks for a bargain price in a package thats relaible an comfy enough, in other words a small stylish euro exotic in vette territory. In other words not matter how good the handling is, its going to sell on styling to most because the paper metrics are not there. Pity then there is not a 5-600hp amg v6 version, that would move it on from being an interesting car for those in the know, to a standout machine that exceeds the cayman gt4..
    As it is now, this is a gt type car pitched at the vette and cayman Gt for similar money.

    In any event Im guessing 2-3k sales per year they will be happy with for now.

    Hard to see why theyre concurrently dropping the elige, its got to be well amortized so even if they sell under 1k per year there should be profit and halo in each one. Perhaps theyre embarrased by its staying power. Personaly I'd love to see the elige return like the 7 from caterham. As a component car it could be even lighter and more powerful, but lotus flatly refuses to sell the project.
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Great article and agree with him. We'll note the evora had similar weight and hp, it didnt sell, the handling improvemnts to an evora will be apreciated by few outside the fold, so it boils down to styling, will that tilt the balance enough?

    All of which is why imo this car needs either a classy knockout punch motor (ie knockout caymans) of 5-600hp v6 from amg and to loose weight for the 485 hp 4cyl stripped version.
    Lotus seems to eventualy get cars right a few years after the fact. The evora would have done way better had they started with the intercooled S and good looks, by the time that hapened the competitors game had moved on and the evora was lost. In 2025 or so when they have to do a different powerplant for emissions , this car may have vastly improved punch and some less weight, maybe that will tilt the balance as the competitors ice game couldl be static in the rush to electrics. In any event they should be starting with more hp and some less weight to have car that really stands out. As with the allante and fiero it dosent count if you only get the car right at the end. Are total cayman sales even over 10k per year?, in any event whatever lotus do to this car it will never sell in cayman numbers.

    Theyre a powerplant short and 200lbs above what we hoped a new Dino would be, theyve got so much of the rest right, and geely owns a huge chunk of mercdes so amg powerplants are clearly an option cmon lotus make it happen.
     
  15. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

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    No room to make Eliges. Tooling available for the right buyer... https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36364007/lotus-selling-elise-tooling/
     
  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Possibly the 360hp rating is there so it does not bump into and over the more premium v6 version in terms of paper performance metrics. I would believe that to the extent there are actual differences in the 4cyl to amg cars its exhaust, intake and ECU tuning. These days emisons compliance testing, not to mention warranty gets far more complex when you make mechanical changes. For sure the 4cyl motor has lots of upgrade potential for the car owner without changing mechanical bits, which is nice, easy and economic to do. The factory is mooting there will be a more track focussed less Gt version of this car, if so owner power upgrades could complete the circle and make it really interesting, well see.
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Excellent, lets put together an Fchat bid.
    As a componet car one could go back to S1 weight, around 1500-1600lbs, it will need emissions compliant mtoors, but the ford duratec seems to work great for oters, or even better yet can you imagine this car with the civic type R mtor.
     
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  18. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Manual!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Theres always this type of car as an option(article below), pastiche design with more than a hint of alfa T33 and alpine about it.
    The problem here is while the (wells) car adheres to the lightweight philosophy, power is still not there. Its all very well that a 60's elan had 150 or so hp, tires and brakes in those days were minimal so the car had a balance of forces at lowish power. The grip available today even with modest tire widths is in another orbit, and brakes can throw you through the windsheild, add to that superlative shocks and even a small lightweight car can easily handle lots more power than those of yore.
    A 200-250 hp 7 seesm to be the norm, and it has suspension tires and brakes to handle it. If you look at the Dallara which is a modern platform its pushing 350-400hp which seems optimal for a stiff tubbed 2000-2500lbs car in todays world.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-british-firm-reveals-lightweight-manual-sports-car-%C2%A340k


    Lotus has been about balance of forces forever. in the emria between, weight aero, tires and brakes it seems more power would not upset the balance at all. Theres more than one exige v6 with a harrop interccoled supercharger upgrade and 500hp running about.
     
  20. KennyH

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    #71 KennyH, Jul 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
    Deposit placed. I'm told cars will start to hit the [US] dealers in the summer of 2022. The dealer that I'm working with stated they have 23 deposits already and are allocated cars based off of previous year Lotus sales. He also mentioned both financing and leasing options via Volvo - "which are a first".
     
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  21. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

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    For all those clamouring for a relatively light, manual transmission, that looks exotic and should be a great drivers car, all at a very reasonable price, here it is. This is a perfect to compliment to a high priced exotic, where mileage is irrelevant, great for the track and daily driving, rain or shine, parked anywhere, no anxiety of over depreciation. If Lotus executes this properly, they have a runaway winner.
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mmmm.... looks a bit kit car-ish to me. Like someone thought they could out design a Ferrari. Trying too hard.
     
  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    All 26 people in the world waiting for this agree with you!

    90 grand for a car that goes 0-60 in 4.5 sec? Give me a break. What are you racing against? Miata's? :)
     
  24. pearsonhaus

    pearsonhaus Formula 3

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    I like it, a lot. Hopefully, performance results will be better than what I am reading here. At any rate, it's a beautiful car and I hope Lotus does very well with it. Also, you will not see them everywhere. That's a big plus, to me.
     
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