Lotus Emira

Alpha 4 C at a lot less money. Boxster. Cayman. KennyH already reports his dealer has 23 deposits. By your account, only 3 other people in the world want one. You seem to have your finger on the pulse of car enthusiasts. NOT.

 

While I've put my name down for one, I've got no dog in this fight, and am happy to release my allocation if it doesn't live up to the initial hype. I'm rooting for reviewers to love it and am hoping that it's an exotic alternative to the Cayman.

With regards to the power, I also wish it had another few hp (ideally 50) or so, however cars like the Cayman S and GTS appear to be pretty evenly spec'd (see the attached that I've borrowed from an Evo article), and people seem to enjoy those. "Well balanced" is the general sentiment, and way that folks explain away the lack of big hp. Also, I'd have to imagine that they're sandbagging performance figures a bit. For the 400hp V6, it has to be on par with, or better than, the Cayman GTS.

With prices creeping up for most modern sports cars (992's the way I'd spec them are $130-150+, used 458's are $200k+ now, stick 430's are $175k+, used 991.2's are $110-120k+, etc.), this appears to be a relative bargain. Will it measure up, apples-to-apples with cars ~ twice it's price? Probably not. Will it be similarly fun for the street? Hopefully. At a minimum, it should make for an easier conversation with the Mrs. when I justify what I'm spending on another unnecessary, irrational (yet more rational than the alternative) two-seat sports car. Especially when I already have a couple of other sports cars.
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TheMayor owns (or perhaps used to own) a 4C but in case he doesn't get the chance to respond I will. The sticker price on my well-optioned new 4C was $73,845 with an advertised price of $65,845 and a purchase price of $65,000.

I think it is an exceedingly safe bet that even a base Emira will exceed all three of those numbers. The question currently keeping me from being able to 100% commit to the purchase of a V6 manual example right now is by how much....

 

Mayor is just spouting off endless tripe as per usual. How a 4c owner could possibly call an Emira a kit car is laughable. Emira will be a hit for lotus and looks great! Mayor is just jealous and behaving badly….that’s all that’s going on here - much was the case with the Artura. Same deal. Dejavu’

Instead of wasting so much time posting endless nonsense on fchat and god knows where else, he’d be better of working and making some money so he buy himself something decent instead of throwing off at these cars.

 

Lets see a 4c in us spec is 2500lbs and has a very stiff cf tub.
The emira is 3100lbs and a bonded alumninum tub. While I dont have the spec charts ill bet the emira wheelbase is significantly longer than a 4c.
Comparing and emira to a 4c is like comparing an evora to an elise, they're simply different animals.

the best comparison is to the alpine. Both are modern comfortable to use cars, they have similar power to weight ratio but the alpine is 600lbs lighter making it a by definition a diffeent car dynamicaly, and in fact more like a lotus than the emira.. They seem to sell 3k alpines per year.

As for the emiura being kit car like, thats been true of lotus since forever. The emira will not have porche build, it should be way better than c7 vette build quality, whetehr its at C8 levels is to be detirmined, but its probably way better than kit car. . In any event as its styling is pastiche generic 2 seat mid engined exotic, one could throw out the kit car moniker when adressing styling, even so it looks to be a balanced design.and a great pastiche. I dont think the ferrari or lambo styling department are losing sleep over this car, still its close enough stylewise to Italian exoctic that it will steal mor than a few sales

 

If you say Emira looks like a kit car then what's that make a 4c look? And using the build quality of a Porsche is a moot point. Tell me what other exotic has the build quality of a Porsche? None of them do even though they may be clearly ahead in build over these lesser priced "Psuedo exotics".

Bottom line is an Emira looks infinitely more stylish than any 4c could even hope to look (even in 4c's wildest of dreams) and, would drive 1000 times better as well regardless of the structural material. I also doubt a Emira will ever be Googled searched only to be found rated as 2 star and, quoted as a bad car! What a joke!

If anyone here wants to suggest a 4c is better car because is less expensive then that's an affordability issue and certainly nothing to do with anything else.

Looks to me a few here are trying to defend the indefensible for the sake of preserving a few fragile egos.....an exercise in futility.

 

Emira V6 sounds better than all the Ferraris up the Goodwood hill ! Especially SF90

 

The Sf90's were tragically inaudible and so uneventful to watch from the outside, but with the Emira there was proper anger in the volume of the exhaust creating an event to watch. I think the only one getting excited over SF90 was Schmee sitting in the passenger seat, but from outside it was a real yawner. The Valkyrie sounded proper though, as did a few others.

 

I put my deposit in a few days ago and my dealer already had 35 deposits….


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Apparently already an order book of +/- 1000 at Festival of Speed only....

 

You seem hung up on cost as a key factor in how good a car is. More expesive cars tend to be techno laden heavier and more powerful, that makes them a fundementaly different experience to a smaller lighter stiffer car.
At the extremes we have a Bugatti Chiron and Caterham 7( or the new Dallara if you find a 7 too quaint) . The Bugatti is too heavy to dance, but it has massive power and top speed, its purpose like many exotics is questionable beyond the on road pose and thrill, I like it in context as a techno acomplishment and its pure excess. The Caterhan is a developed 7 weights 1400ls and has around 250hp, its still produced after 65 years cause it does what other cars do not in terms of feel and hadling, not to mention viceral speed, it sucks on the highway. The modern equivalent of a 7 is the Dallara, there you are paying at least 250-300k for car powered by a 4cyl ford engine, but it too does what no other exotic does, because its really stiff, notably light and has great aero. It says much that Dallara who are pretty much the chassis engineers for multiple race series and considered the masters of CF tubs and suspesion chose the light stiff 4cyl formula for their own and only road car.

General consensus seem to be that the zenisth modern "supercar" is the Maclaren F1, it too is cf tubbed stiff, really light. It was a cost is no object car, Murry chose stiff and light as key features. The F1, didnt sell well in period because few understood and a recession, yet they go for 20-30 million now, which makes them the most valauble modern car by far. Gordon Murry is considered the genius of race and road car design, his new car the T50 incorporates those same virtues, it is the polar opposite of a SF90. Murry BTW drives a renault alpine as a daily.

The point I am making is that there is much to be said for small light stiff cars, they do what the others cannot reagardless of cost. As you can only go so fast on road and the corers are the fun bits, the driving experience and pleasure, not to mention a-b backroad time are all superior to the "exotics". Yes comfort takes a hit. For many its worth paying a lot for a small uncomfy 4cyl car because the emphasis on driving pleasure and backroad dynamics far overshadows the rest. As we see with the T50, to acheive the same lightweight benefits of a 4c with high hp, youre talking a 2+million dollar car and even still its an aquired taste, many thin sf90.

If one appreciates light and small, the 4c, alpine or a elige is the way to go. Its not so much cost as they are the best of the breed, and are a breed seprate to heavy overpowered "exotics" in that context they are simply the best..

Imo 4c and alpine also look great. A 4c will get a low rating from some magazine cause its small uncomfy maybe the ac is not the best and its noisy. An elige is even worse and smells of glue plus its rattly and the 4cyl motor sounds like a bucket of bolts, but like all great things its been sold for decades cause its superlative. When rated for the drive experience these cars get scores in the top, and exceed others.

If i had to judge the 4c, the strut suspension was and error esp with such a stiff tub, that means at the very cornering limit on track suspension flex does some weird things to the toe and it feels edgy like a 911. The steering also feels too heavy for such a small light car, they really should have put wishbones in. However, on track and the power is plenty, it chews through the gears with anger, and it feels totaly carved from granite in a way no metal framed car can. My critique, they could have and should have developed it further, maybe thats the new MC20 when they do a lighter sportier version.

Its all a function of priorities and use cycle. Its also a fact that a1000lbs heavier and longer wheelbase car simply cannot drive like the smaller lighter one, nor can it have the same superlative dynamics in terms of suspension absorbtion or turn in/pivot, although 4ws can fake pivot to a degree.

No car is a fully rounded package, its all a function of compromises and tradeoffs. If youre unwilling to compromise on dynamics and backroad ability, if thats what you really value, then your choices are a 7, a elige a 4c or alpine. I listed them in order of refinement and comfort.

What is a better car?, depending on use and priorities any of the mentioned 4 are better than any other car out there regardless of price, untill you get to the 300k dallara or the 2mill T50, and that one might just be overkill.

The key of course is to have horses for courses. A fast great handling sedan for daily and run to the shops, in my book a guliar amg erc or m5, A Gt car for when youre felling sporty going out etc, newer regular ferrari, porche, masser, and something small and lithe for when you have acess to mountains or backroads and just want to drive with a capital D(4c elige alpine), plus somehting honed for track, and maybe something more classic cause all cars are cool in their own way and yes if you have the scratch soemthign ridiculous like a f12, aventador etc cause yeah exotics are cool

If you could only have 1 car that covers all the bases well, thats a new Gt3 hands down. Viceral na motor, great handling, fun on road, comfortable enough to use, fast everywhere including the track. Its then the best car overall if you don't mind the styling and lack of exoticness.

Never met Mayor other than online here. and we have had our debates, sometimes he is contradictory perhaps to provoke debate, saying sticks are dead cause no one wants them, but then he hunting for stick mini for La, got paddle 4c as a viceral car, he crtiques styling but got new vette as daily. That tells me he does horses for courses, the vette is a big heavyish Gt car, Mayor will be the first to say its not a true sportscar which upsets the vette folks, and he has a 4c the polar opposite.

Yeah exotics cost a lot and have the looks and power, that does not make them the best other than in some very narrowly defined criteria. Even if you have a 500k ferrari, you'd still want the others too, cause in some ways theyre simply far superior to drive.

People have different measure of their priorities as to what makes somehting the best. For the same $ I can see why someone would choose a vette,4c and mini over a single Gt3 or a used 430. Depending on priorities an emira may just tick many boxes for a lot of people, hope so for lotus.
Im purely speculating cause no one has driven one yet. But evora power levels in a 3100lbs exotic type car with ps seems stuck between two stools to me, its neither light and lithe nor really powerful/fast, more like a cayman gts with exotic looks , thats a hard sell outside of the faithful, unless the styling just cinches the deal..

After writing this Im taking the elise for a spin for first time in 4 weeks cause its hard and needs no traffic and others are easier.

 

6 Speed Manual? Check
Mid Engined? Check
RWD? Check
Non-turbo engine for glorious exhaust note and linear power delivery? Check
Hydraulic steering? Check
Stunning looks? Check
Quality interior? Check
Deposit placed? Check

Honestly what other mid engined 6 speed manual non-turbo options are there?
Cayman? Too long gearing, everyday looks. 911 inferiority complex.
Elise? Cheap hard plastic interior (S3 not available here)
Evora? Had an S, loved it but got into accident and wrote off
Evora 400? Overstyled, never got along with the looks
355? Questionable reliability, already have an F430. Perhaps a bit dated for my age

Alternatively I guess you could look at a GT3 manual, but it's hard to justify 458 money on an 911

400hp is plenty for me. There are other cars in the stable if I want to go faster, but I don't race people on the street and don't track either. For me it's about the supercar experience. It must look amazing, sound amazing and feel amazing. Honestly I think this car looks nicer then the other mid-V6's released this year; MC20, Artura and 296GTB, and will sound much better then any of those due to lack of turbos.

 

Even Shmeee is getting one ...dunno if that's a plus or not lol

 

Whut!?? Very odd interpretation..

What I said in my paragraph 3 had nothing to do with that at all and was the exact opposite of what you are saying.

And please no need for another long explanation..

 

Let's take it as a plus. He clearly has no interest in 4c lol. Oh no, I think i'm now in for another brow beating.



Shmee loves the sound ...

 

Hit the nail on the head.
If people don’t understand Lotus, it’s a momentum car, never was about the power. All about the weight and handling. Realize the weight is a bit hefty at just over 3k pounds, so will have to see how the handling and driving experience is… that’s where the passion is at.


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Jealous of what?

Yah know, when the 4c came out and its 0-60 time was quoted at 4.3 seconds, a weight of 2500 lbs in US trim, and a complete hand made CF tub, EVERYONE on Fchat yelled in unison: "TOO SLOW!" Now a new squirrel is presented and its 0-60 time is 4.5 sec. Everyone yells "AMAZING!"

The only reason you people like it is because its still available with a manual for dinosaurs to buy until this car goes all electric. Then that's still not the end of Lotus fan boys. "But the batteries are really light in this car!" LOL.

Its not bad looking. Its not great either as it borrows from 4 other cars. Its -- generic sports car kinda designed in entry level design school. It certainly borrows nothing from its "Lotus" design ethos or heritage. Stick a Kia badge on this and people would never call it a Kia that looks like a Lotus.

I don't dislike this car but its seems to me that with a modern interior, TFT screen, and POWER SEATS of all things -- Lotus has thrown in the towel and bent to what consumers actually want rather than what consumers say on social media they want.

Its a good car and I'm glad Lotus made it. If they didn't they were dead or another Morgan. I'd prefer Lotus didn't die. But the manual gearbox is going to die in modern cars with this car.

 

QUESTION;

How much "momentum" do you keep in stop and go traffic in today's world of cities and highways packed to the gills with SUV's?

There is the dream. Then, there is reality.

 

So, my commute is about 12 min., just enough time to have some fun. Call me crazy but certain turns, I look at the Apex brake hard, roll it out and throttle on. Fun to do in my short commute.
I used to daily my Elise and of course, nothing matches that, and I’m sure the Emira won’t either. I’m not expecting it to, but if it feels somewhat visceral, then that’s enough for me.
I will always have a manual in my garage, sure yes dinosaurs, but again still fun and engaging.
Lastly, GMR is a great canyon road in my backyard, so on weekends I’d definitely take the Emira on these roads to ring it out. It’s not the same and a bit daunting to try to go 10/10’s in a CGT or F40. Lotus’ are built for this and of course, for the track.


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In the hills of NW Ct its all momentum, compliance and pivot. On my Elise drive yesterday I took note. It was all 40-100mph bends, 3rd and 4th gear in the elise, actualy it seems like the elise will hit close on 100 in 3rd anyway and for momentum you dont need that much thrust all the time so theres a lot of 4th. In fact you can just roll in 4th use the momentum and not need the second cam at all.

I was thinking as I dorve that in a notionaly faster car on those road one would just be holding back in many places, not least to contain the bulk for the narrow corners and tighte transition s bends. Perhos the roads where I live are like those in hethel, cause the car is just perfect for them, it certainly does not feel lacking in power. The roads were laid down hundreds of years ago along the easiest paths, following little valleys or crags along meadering streams comming out hills. they have evrything from wriggiling sweepers to tight series of s bends, the surface can be cambered billiard smooth to mottles and narrow right up against guardrail.

Reagrdless of power the the benefits of light weight and balance here come from the ability to just lose the exact amount of speed at the right point, the immediate pivot which allows for such cornering and the low unsprung mass with a light body means the suspension can really work, with the wheels always on the road regardless of the surface, while the body remains relatively flat. Its exactly Chapmans ethos, let the suspesion have enough travel to do the work, light means you dont need too stiff springs so wheeks reamin on road and great shocks to contain it all.

In somehting ,like a Gt3, probably the straights could be faster, to the extent 110 is more important than 100 on short straight, it would also be comparatively ponderous on the corners and its ride would have you bouncing about on the sometime uneven or mottled surface, been there done that.

Emira might split the difference, and work on highway, we'll see.

 

Shmee annoys the hell out of me from the moment he introduces himself, and normally I refuse to watch him.. But for the Emira I was willing to endure, and honestly there's a lot of info to pick up including a more practical look at a variety of aspects of the interior.. And Jensen Button does some of the talking... Sigh.. Hate to say it but everyone interested in the Emira should go watch it. Even made me question the i4/DCT vs V6/manual.

 

Great to hear Jensen Button’s comments on liking the mechanical grip of the car along with the chassis. He seems to really enjoy the Emira’s driving experience.
Also like his note on how the gearshift has been elevated to be closer to the steering wheel, reminds me of the placement of the gearshift in the CGT.


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We have to remember, Jensen gets paid to brag about the car.
My biggest gripe as of now is the car is not made in England. It’s going to be produced in China of all places. Even worse, Wuhan for some god awful reason.
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They confirmed the Emira will only be built in Hethel. China will be for electric and suv etc in future.

 

Well thank god to that. Truly the last ICE and the last of the British built.


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