F355 Market

Thanks!

I see quite a few 355 GTS for 86-90k euros In France with 40-50k miles… say the car cost you 115 with tax and import (which seems to be shipping +3% duties) I’m pretty sure one can resale it for 150k… not worth the hassle unless you want to drive it!

78k, 96gts,42k miles . Not bad.

https://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-69108680271.html


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That’s a 2.7 Berlinetta . I’d buy that right now if I were you.

Headers? Valve guides done?

 

I have 0 idea, I’d have to call or have my dad look at it


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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Ferrari-355-Berlinetta-7-000-MILES-6-SPEED-MANUAL-/304070265567?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Uh oh. Sold? Did Magnus Walker find the perfect 355??

 

??? Listing ended. Relisted. https://www.ebay.com/itm/294294713046?ViewItem=&item=294294713046&vxp=mtr

 

The red and tan spider on BaT is up to $60k, with one day to go. I guess that car will at least break through $70k. I am a little surprised.

 

Why are you surprised?

 

I am surprised because the one on BaT, red/tan that we are talking about, it has more problems and unknowns than the yellow 6-speeds that have sold there recently-both for about $75k (three yellow spiders, but one was a re-list). I am not an expert on those yellow cars, as I am not in the market, but I thought the red/tan current car would sell for a lot less than those cars. The red 16KMile spider below, was a bit strange as it looked like a museum piece in some ways, but was desperately needing a major. I could understand a buyer thinking, for the 16kmile car, “Hey, I’ll do the major and have a near perfect car.” The 23k mile one was running normally I think, $99k sounds fine.

This car on BaT now has a long repair road ahead of it, in my opinion. I would prefer to pay a bit more for a spider with a lot less questions, than put $70k plus $15k a major service (zero service receipt history/accident in history/tires are needed/noise at startup, etc) into this red/tan one.
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If it tops 70 it says something about who's buying out there. That's good for sellers right now but in longer term who knows.

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Low miles, but I don’t think it has had headers and valve guides done. I imagine the previous owner(s) feels they did not put enough miles on it to warrant it?

If driven regularly, it will eventually need it…. But as a “museum grade car,” maybe not??? I actually think it is cheap for the miles/KM! But maybe it needs proof of valve guides and headers to break the $200k mark. Market is getting soft, LOL.


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Guides on my Rosso 95 weren’t done until around 18k mi after showing signs. For this 7k mi car, I wouldn’t consider a guide job until a major due when the car is around 15-20k mi.

 

This next one on BaT will be interesting. 108kmiles and no reserve. Not sure I have seen a no reserve F355 on BaT
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-ferrari-f355-spider-31/

 

For sure, I am not sure if $65k on the last one surprised me or not, Big
Mileage on this one so someone has definitely enjoyed it and why not? You can’t take it with you!
When I do jump in I will definitely add miles as I am buying to own, love and use it. Just got to get past the guilt and sell the idea to me wife ( who has already told me to just get on with it ) another 5 times before I get it done.

 

Air freight on high end luxury cars was fairly normal before covid happened. Now it's just insanely expensive.

As for faking invoice value I'm not about to mess with the tax man and I would advise against it. . I factory duty into all transactions and generally speaking its never been a deal breaker in terms of landed cost vs. buying a local example. The delta is still usually fairly healthy.

The biggest advantage can be currency fluctuations. I watch the forex markets anyway...sometimes in a few weeks cars can go from not making sense to being viable.

 

So in your opinion, are 355's not valued properly in Europe (speaking relatively) or is it simply the USD exchange rate is that much more in our favor?

 

From what I'm seeing...there's a lot (a LOT) of driver cars out there that make it SEEM like they're worth less out there. Any (and I mean every single one) that has come on market as a top tier example has been priced pretty close to the same of examples here on this side of the pond, and they sell pretty quickly. Like under 1 week.

There's lots of really nice examples out there with higher miles that have been well kept. Lots of ****ty ones too. Those cars tend to sit for a while...but even most nicer higher mile ones I've seen have moved in under 1 month.

Generally speaking, on average the 355's this side of the pond have far less miles on them than out in Europe. People seem to drive their cars out there haha

 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=593313804

Not sure if this was posted I've been away and not checking this thread often. Stunning Rosso Barchetta F1 GTS (rarest variant outside challenge/fiorano)

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21k miles
major just completed
all records, books, tools, etc. included
$124,900 USD

I'd say that ask is up about $30k from last year on a similar car.

 

Let's focus on one Rosso Barchetta at a time . I was told by a very reliable source that 98 and 99 cars have sintered steel guides. It is 97 cars that need to be checked. BAT RB GTS is good to go. Bid away. $250k here we come.

 

There's actual assembly number onwards where it is believed to have been steel guides. The information is on FChat somewhere. The change happened somewhere in the mid-97 model year production IIRC. 98-99s are therefore more desirable. As well as manuals being more rare in the later years I assume.

Ultimate spec is a 99 with stamped shields, carbon seats, manual berlinetta or GTS manual/f1.

 

27689 is the alleged build number switchover. This corresponds to early '98 MY production. My car has a Nov. 97 build date and is almost 500 cars after the switchover. The 98 Barchetta GTS on BaT right now is a Sept. 97 build assembly #27519, 170 cars before the cutoff. So the switchover was presumably sometime during September or October 1997 production.

Assuming there was a precise switchover. This was posted here some years ago and cited regularly since, but I have seen no proof of the claim.

 

Enjoy: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/95-f355-valve-guides-fact-vs-fiction.5554/

I got to know Jon and even rode in his Challenge car at 8 or 9/10's. He'd probably be proud this thread is still alive!

 

Thanks for the info. Now I'm curious how accurate the change over is. This car does have 41k mi ..

 

I do have some issues with some of the statements made. I know this is the market thread, but I'll keep it short.

"Completely false. According to FNA technical director Adam Williams, only about 20% of all 95-model year 355’s experienced excessive valve guide wear and needed them replaced. And in fact, about half way through the 1995 model year the factory changed over to a different type of valve guide (the ones that they replaced the old ones with on the early cars)."

Not enough miles on the car for issues to arise. Not everyone reporting their data to FNA.



"Myth #3:

Valve guide issues can occur at any time during the life of the car and are more prone to experience these issue in higher mileage cars.

Fact:

According to the Ferrari factory in Italy and re-affirmed by Adam Williams, 90% of the valve guide issue occurred almost immediately or within the first two years of ownership. The few that have occurred in higher mileage cars cannot be confirmed to have happened at a specific point in time and likely could have been present for quite some time. Certainly the older valve guides may wear out faster but they don’t go from being in good shape to wearing out overnight."


My Rosso 94 October build showed documented issues around 18k mi before they did the guide work and changed to sintered steel. I suspect my 29k mi Nero July build 94 might have a guide issue. Won't be sure until I check, but I am doing the guide job regardless during the next engine out.

 

The issue with guides on 355's is very similar to that of 993's. It's not really an issue of materials, but a factory QC problem in which the guides weren't reamed correctly and engines left the factory with high oil consumption from new. "Healthy" 993 engines that were torn down in the 90's with 3K miles on them for RS 3.8 conversions had guides that were out of spec. This wasn't because the material wore too quickly, it's because they were out of spec from new. Same goes for the 355. This is why it's surely correct that 355 engines tend to either need guides at very low mileage or they have a normal service life. Porsche actually revised its acceptable oil consumption spec for 993's upwards trying to avoid warranty rebuilds because oil consumption on many engines was terrible from day one, like 1 quart per 800 miles. Bottom line, if you had a bozo assembling your cylinder heads you may need guides at 10-20K miles. If they were fitted correctly, you're good for a long time. There probably were *some* in-between engines built by semi-bozos with sort-of-correct valve guide fitment, where they need guides at 40-50K. But we don't really know what a long time is for 355's because people don't rack up the miles on these cars, so the main experience we have is with low-mileage cars needing guides. That is a sample size question more than anything.

On an air-cooled 911 like a 993, properly fitted guides means a 150K+ mile service life. My 993 needed guides at 70K miles, very typical, but this is having been a modest oil burner its whole life. The guides were basically bad from new. After the top end rebuild my 993 never burned a drop.

 

This, of course, begs the question, if it were the case why would Ferrari change to sintered steel? Change materials because the guides weren't reamed correctly?