car design thread | Page 497 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Never!
     
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  2. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

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    #12402 VigorousZX, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  3. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Celebrating the 'wedge design' at the Concours of America this last weekend.
    Jul 26, 2021,03:36pm EDT|364 views
    Celebrating The Wedge At The Concours D’Elegance Of America
    This past weekend on a gorgeous summer day more than 200 classic cars and thousands of fans of them came together for the 42nd Concours d’Elegance of America in Plymouth, Mich. The event which has been held at the Inn at St. Johns for the past decade usually happens out on the golf course. Unfortunately, a heavy thunderstorm swept through the area the night before and flooded parts of the course making it impossible to bring the machines onto the grass. As a result, the display of machines took place in the parking lot. This event always has the usual classes you’ll find at such shows including jazz age, pre-war, post-war foreign and American. But this particular show has always included some unusual classes including this year’s designer class “The Wedge.”


    The wedge class is special to me personally because it represents my formative years as an automotive enthusiast. It was a design trend that began at the beginning of the 1970s and largely petered out by the 1990s. It began in earnest with a pair of Italian concepts from 1970, the Ferrari Modulo and the Lancia Stratos Zero. The Modulo was acquired from the Pininfarina design house several years ago by collector James Glickenhaus who has exhibited several of his cars here in prior years but wasn’t in attendance for the 2021 event.





    The Lancia concept was conceived by Pinifarina’s cross town rival Bertone and its designer Marcello Gandini. In some ways, the Stratos is even more radical than the Modulo and it sits only 33-inches tall. The original concept is owned by a European collector and it makes periodic appearances at shows and in special museum exhibits. However, in the 1980s, a replica was created for use in the Michael Jackson Moonwalker video. That reproduction which was at the show looks like the original on the outside although the interior doesn’t match the original.





    Through the 1970s and into the 1980s some real icons incorporated the wedge theme in a variety of ways that have made them memorable to this day. This includes the Triumph TR8 (aka “The Shape of Things to Come!), the Lotus Esprit as immortalized by James Bond, the Aston Martin Lagonda which featured the first ever touch controls and CRT displays in a car and of course, the Delorean DMC12. But no wedge group would be complete without another Gandini creation and the winner of best in class, the Lamborghini Countach.


     
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  5. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  6. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Loose in the streets, no less!
     
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  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  8. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    ^ engine type? hp?
     
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  9. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  10. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Late '60's early '70's Lancia running gear. Drivable.
     
  11. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    That reminds me of those tiny wheel Shadow Can Am cars from the early 1970's.
     
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  12. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Re: "Coolest. Car. Ever!"


    Is it just me, or does anyone else really want to hear the unabridged official @jm2 lecture on the "Coolest. Car. Ever!"? :)


    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  13. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    :rolleyes:
    Well, at least I’m consistent. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    OK, I’ll stop. Now everyone knows my position.
     
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  15. Jeff Kennedy

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    THE AUTOEXTREMIST - RANTS
    DESIGN MATTERS.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login MONDAY, JULY 26, 2021 AT 06:00PM
    By Peter M. DeLorenzo

    Detroit. Last week’s column about “blandtastic” design stirred the pot yet again among the AE faithful as well as with industry insiders. Some readers were stunned at the profile similarities on display from the different manufacturers, which is understandable when you’re really able to see them juxtaposed against one another.

    But then again, it shouldn’t really have come as a surprise. The members of the design community have mimicked and frankly ripped off each other for decades now. The design schools have contributed to this phenomenon by churning out graduates taught with similar perspectives who then go to work at the manufacturers’ design houses. Yes, of course, safety standards and interior packaging requirements come into play, but the systematic blandness that has overrun what should be the most exciting part of the business has resulted in a homogenization of design that is debilitating.

    As I’ve often said, design is the Ultimate Initial Product Differentiator, and in the transition to the EV Age, compelling design will become even more critical. With similar battery platform designs – aka “the skateboard” – and other technical commonalities such as range and charging capability, the look and street presence of vehicles will directly affect consumer desire. That’s not to say that interior design isn’t important, because it certainly it is – after all, that’s where we spend all of our time when driving. But exciting, breakthrough interiors will never be enough on their own; you first have to lure the consumer in for a closer look, and it’s the exterior design that does that, no matter how impressive the interior is.

    Since Day One of the automotive design business, which started with the “Art and Colour” department at General Motors in the 1930s under Harley Earl’s direction, the concept of design “reach” has been an ongoing battle. The easiest thing to do in the design business – before Earl arrived on the scene – was to stay the course, do a few tweaks and call it good. This attitude sustained itself more often than not over the previous decades. But in Detroit’s heyday, roughly from the mid-50s to the early 70s – when GM Styling (now Design) often set the tone for the entire mainstream automobile industry – every year was a momentous year, because "design reach" were the operative words of the day. Staying in place was not an option back then, and each year a series of breakthrough designs was unleashed on the long-since-lost “Announcement Day,” with the manufacturers vying for consumer attention with designs that made the previous year’s lineup instantly obsolete. (Planned obsolescence wasn’t always a bad thing.) And, Bill Mitchell, Earl’s gifted successor, was the absolute Maestro at it.

    Understanding this and despite what I presented last week, all is not lost, however, as evocative designs – though few and far between – still have a way of surfacing, which is a very good thing. Given what I know, I have a few comments on what’s out and what’s coming…

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    I was super critical of BMW’s move to the overexaggerated front-end in the past, but I will give BMW designers this: 1. At least they have a distinct point of view that is directly influenced by memorable designs from the earliest beginnings of the company. And 2. The front end and the non-functioning grille actually work best on their crossovers/SUVs. That doesn’t mean I am exactly warming up to the look, but I get it. If there were ever a graphic demonstration of "design reach," this is it.

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    (BMW)

    The front end on their electric SUVs will have other functions – to house myriad sensors, etc. – and from a road presence perspective there will be no mistaking when a BMW is coming at you.

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    (BMW)

    I don’t like the front end on the coupe and sedans – it looks added on and unattractive, but I will admit that the racing version is not bad. Not bad at all.

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    (Mercedes-Benz)

    Mercedes-Benz has the direct opposite problem from BMW. This is the company’s new all-electric flagship, the EQS 580 4Matic. This top-of-the-line, $150,000+ luxury sedan lays claim to be the most aerodynamic production car in the world, with a Cd of just .020. It is loaded with a plethora of gee-whiz stuff, which I won’t go into right now, but there is nothing gee-whiz about its design. In fact, it is instantly forgettable. Given the all-new, clean computer screen opportunity of designing for the EV future, this is what Mercedes-Benz designers come up with? Ugh.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login (Mercedes-Benz)

    One thing about the new EQS that does resonate is the interior. The 56” MBUX Hyperscreen display is really good, but in this case, they’re not first. GM’s wide, almost full-dash display in the ’21 Cadillac Escalade arrived first, and the upcoming super-luxury flagship from Cadillac - the Celestiq - will have an even wider full screen display. But for now, I will give M-B credit – this I.P. is super-slick.

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    (Hyundai)

    This is what Hyundai says about the new IONIQ 5 EV: “The futuristic-looking Hyundai IONIQ 5 is based upon Hyundai’s breakthrough Electric Global Modular Platform (E-GMP), which delivers faster charging, increased driving range, superior handling and more interior space. In addition to revolutionizing sustainable mobility, the IONIQ 5 offers an interior that provides a whole new in-car experience – redefining living space and moving space. Environmentally friendly materials, such as eco-processed leather and recycled yarn, are used extensively in the IONIQ 5.” This crossover/hatchback thingy is getting a lot of attention of late. For good reason? Maybe. The shape is certainly not breakthrough, but the overall execution is concept-car-like. And it definitely has a distinct point of view. Will it deliver? That remains a giant “we’ll see.”

    Image Unavailable, Please Login (Hyundai)

    The IONIQ 5 interior is of the contemporary “minimalist” school of interior design, with everything packaged on screens. Not exactly an unexpected approach, but it seems clean, simple and no doubt ultra-functional. Full disclosure? I like gauges, either in place or virtually presented. And I like the new, now-obligatory screens when they look like old-school instrumentation, or can at least be programmed to look like it. That said, I’ve grown to appreciate - and really like – head-up displays, especially if they’re executed well.

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    The exterior surface detailing on the IONIQ 5 is its compelling drawing card. This car will resonate with buyers once they see it in real time. No, not exactly a breakthrough shape overall, but the exterior design will draw people in to learn more.

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    The rear view of the IONIQ 5 is decidedly ho-hum, which is directly the result of the modified crossover box shape. Not a deal breaker, but not its best view by any stretch.

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    (Porsche)

    Now, for something completely different from, of all car companies, Porsche. This is what they have to say: “Insight: Interior of the Renndienst Study. The designers at Style Porsche in Weissach journey far into the future of mobility. They think and design visions for the day after tomorrow in order to derive steps for tomorrow. They ask themselves how far they can expand Porsche’s design language and to which products it could be applied. This is how the Renndienst came into being. A minivan; a family-friendly interior design concept for up to six people. Challenges such as these keep the designers’ world of ideas fresh.” How about, no? After discussing "design reach" earlier, this is a classic example of a territory that has no business being explored by Porsche, unless the car company completely walks away from anything remotely resembling its founding principles. This is one of those conceptual ideas that should have never seen the light of day. As in, WTF? And why?

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    Oh look, yet another execution of a future van interior. No thanks.

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    (Porsche)

    Cringeworthy doesn’t even begin to cover it. “We thought about how we could still give a distinctly Porsche flair to a passenger compartment that is so far removed from the classic sports-car interior,” said chief designer Michael Mauer. “And how autonomous driving could be designed,” Mauer explains. The second aspect is certainly worth discussing. After all, sports cars are a symbol of self-determination. “We don’t assume that our customers want to give up using a steering wheel,” says Mauer. Oh, why not? When you’re this far gone, does it really matter? This will go down in our “Answer To The Question That Absolutely No One Was Asking” Hall of Fame.

    Talking about giants like Earl and Mitchell earlier might seemly oddly out of touch when it comes to talking about the design challenges of today, but I think that is a narrow-minded perspective. As I’ve reminded my readers previously, there are car people from many disciplines slogging away at every car company on the planet. And an elite few of them may have even managed to rise to the top in their respective car companies with their spirit and passion intact, which is no mean feat in this day and age.

    But in the face of a business that grows more rigid, regulated and non-risk-taking by the day, there are still lessons to be learned from the legacy of Bill Mitchell in particular. If anything, we must remember what really matters in this business above all else – something he instinctively knew in his gut – and that is to never forget the essence of the machine, and what makes it a living, breathing mechanical conduit of our hopes and dreams.

    And that in the course of designing, engineering and building these machines, everyone needs to aim higher and push harder – with a relentless, unwavering passion and love for the automobile that is so powerful and unyielding that it can't be beaten down by committee-think or buried in bureaucratic mediocrity.

    I just hope there are enough visionary leaders in the design community to push the discipline to new heights, while keeping the excruciating missteps to a bare minimum.

    Because Design Matters, probably more so now than at any other time in automotive history.

    And that’s the High-Kilowatt Truth for this week.
     
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  16. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree with just about every word.
     
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  17. NeuroBeaker

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    True! :D

    No, that wasn't my point at all! :oops:

    I would genuinely like an expansion on the 3-word review to hear your full thoughts and analysis on the design. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Well then.
    IMVHO, for me the Stratos Zero is one of the pivotal Concept cars of all time. Late 60's - early 70's the 'Wedge' school of design was being developed by Bertone, Pininfarina & Giugiaro. The Pininfarina Ferrari 512S was introduced in 1969, with the Ferrari Modulo introduced in early 1970. Both those cars were Pininfarina's shot at pointing the design community towards the coming 'wedge' design language. Not to be outdone, Bertone + Gandini set a goal to do the lowest car ever at 33" tall in addition to getting the attention of Lancia's Senior Management team to get future business.

    The debut in late 1970 of the Stratos Zero left everyone slack-jawed. It was the quintessential example of the 'wedge' school of design. Extream in everything.
    No doors, dynamic and looking like it had arrived via outer space. As a young aspiring designer I could not believe what Gandini + Bertone had accomplished. And there was a direct linage from the design language of the Stratos Zero to the Lamborghini Countach. Not much continuity to the 'production/rally car Stratos however. It looked like the typical designer's wet dream sketch, but they built it........and it was drivable!!

    While I liked and appreciated the Modulo, I believed it was a 'double ender' static design. The Zero was dynamic just sitting still. The surface development on the Zero was also sculptural but linear without being brittle or rigid looking. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

    Here we are 50 years later, and those cars still look extreme, but the Zero defines the era for me. Seeing the Zero (replica) last weekend just reinforced my opinion of the design. And judging from the response of the crowd gathered at the Concours, the Zero still resonates with the public. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  19. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    It’s a 1600cc V4 2 twin-choke Solex C42 DDHF carburetor narrow angle V-4 engine. My friend owns the original. I’ve driven it. Runs really well. We took it on the Father’s Day Parade in LA. A true design icon! He’s even driven it to lunch at the BH Hotel! I can honestly say, you can’t sit any lower!
     
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  20. NeuroBeaker

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    Thank you! :D

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  21. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  23. Jeff Kennedy

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    I want to expand on the Stratos Zero critique although, this is not my all time most favorite car.

    Gandini incorporated more design flourishes into his work. Guigaro did wonderful stuff and really did do the wedge and flat (planal) surfaces that drove that idiom for the industry. Pininfarina was far more evolutionary in their design but was almost always highly refined. So, going back to Gandini he believed in being shocking and not doing what was expected. With the Zero loo at the side treatment and one gets a deep inset cut to the side and helping the transition is the rear view mirror set into the recess from the front wheel wells. Take note of the subtle secondary line that bumps the top surface of the roof just a bit more. Gandini also blew conventions with his wheel opening treatments - a round front and a contrived angular back. Yet with all these unusual solutions it comes together as a single piece.
     

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