Lotus Emira | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Lotus Emira

Discussion in 'British' started by sainthoo, Jun 14, 2021.

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  1. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

    Feb 18, 2014
    138
    Los Angeles
    Yeah, that's really the $100k question :), which motor will it be?

    Lotus saying 360hp really bothers me because it's such a de-tune on the amazing new M139 engine, even lower than the stock M139's output (let alone the 416hp "S" version). At the least it would make sense that Lotus increases the 360hp estimate to around the M139's minimum (382 hp).

    The other issue is that the base-line M139 makes 354lb-ft of torque vs. Lotus saying 300lb-ft for the Emira i4. I wonder though if mounting the engine in the rear impacts airflow to the extent that the intercooler won't be as efficient and boost must be notably turned down, resulting in lower torque/hp. Who knows..

    Put another way, yes, we all know Lotus is purposely going to run less hp/torque in year 1 to give itself room for improved models in the years to come. But the #'s right now are so far below the M139 in Mercedes forms, I'd worry they actually stick an older M133 engine in, perhaps at least for the first 2-3 years. Then, bringing in the M139 and its bigger hp can generate some real headlines down the road.

    If an M139 was dropped into the Emira First Edition at the base-line 382hp/354lb-ft of torque, and Lotus has already said it'll be paired with an 8spd DCT.. Its performance is going to seriously upstage the more expensive V6 model.

    I hope I'm wrong across the board and we get the M139, just heavily de-tuned and with any luck capable of being tuned back up by the aftermarket.
     
  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I share your concern. Even the v6 is not toyotas latest and best which goes in the lexus. maybe AMG is just selling them the older tech, except theyre not really going to just make the M133 for lotus. I choose to belive its the lower spec M139, which sadly may not have the same rods and pistons as the 416 hp one.
    Possibly the toyota engine has bigger margin, and they dont want to upstage it with a "less premium" but faster 4cly, thats porche marketing 101. The current launch car comes with drilled rotors, who does that? Marketing.

    Once the christmas rush is over, we'll see hotter versions of this car, not least to maintain sales. Seems like were both interested int he same spec for 100K.. Is going to be 2 years or more if it happens at all, still its a tantilizing idea.
     
  3. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

    Feb 18, 2014
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    Here's a couple good videos on the M139 with comparisons to the M133.




    For this one, ignore the HP range listed in-video for the M133, it was supposed to be 354-375hp per the comments section but was listed much higher in the vid.
     
  4. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Closed deck, forged components, ball bearing turbo, 7k redline whats not to like, and its probably strong enogh to handle even more boost. This is a aserious mtor, the toyota V6 is a boat anchor in comparison, sonoros as it may be.
    Seems like the M133 is going out of production and otus maybe wont have the 4cyl car yet because thye cant get a good stock of M139s untill mercdes gears up, heres hoping.

    Ill take my emira with amg 4cyl mapped to 500 hp, 3000lbsor less, lightweight shell sport seats, Ohlins TTX's, Ap brakes with fishook rotors, completly different animal to the 6yl car, as they said in the 80's totaly awesome. I dont love a paddle on street, its ok, on track theyre great.
    Sounds like they might build it, or maybe they got so many orders already theyll just be lazy, who knows its lotus after all..

    But that 4cyl spec, thats a car I can get really excited about, nice ons treet works great on track, light enough not to consume tires and bakes at an obscene rate. the thinking mans supercar, or a supercar that makes sense.
     
  5. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

    Feb 18, 2014
    138
    Los Angeles
    Hey, don't short-change the engine, it's a 7200 rpm redline.. Every bit counts :).

    Someone just posted a pic on another forum that they say captures what looks like an M139 Emira mule. They took the pic from the Lotus UK documentary "A New Dawn". Here it is:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    On a different note, can anyone here who's driven an Evora (I figure that's the closest comparison) comment on how adjustable the steering wheel is? In particular, has Lotus made them with a decent ability to telescope towards the driver?
     
  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Cant coment on the steering wheel, but drove an evora 400 on track. It didnt "feel" fast, the power was very linear, there was no sense of a hit of power, no mad rush to the redline very different to the v6 exige,.The PS may have been hydraulic but if youre imagining 997gt3 steering it was a huge disspointment. Frankly i thought the evora was just Ok, not great, ok.

    Possibly as road car its great, but I didnt try it in that context. One cool feature, the semi back seat meant it could haul its own track wheels and tires.
     
  7. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Well if I had a V6 Exige…..


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  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    You said you were looking for a classic manual road car, v6 clearly much nicer for that. I know that motor well, its in the exige, smoother than a ferrari 12 and depeding on exhaust sounds as nice as a daytona.

    Horses for courses.
     
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  9. bounty

    bounty F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2006
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    Awesome car - I think these lively street cars are going to be eating into the higher end exotic niche as non-track buyers realize more and more that the power they produce is just not usable on the streets. Excited to see where this segment goes.
     
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  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #185 boxerman, Jul 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
    Did some sleuthing on the webs about this car. Some info can be gleaned from statements made by lotus.
    The actual hp f the v6 will be 417 ho.
    The Intioial IU4 will indeed be the 375 hp version of the M139. That motor does not have the same rods and pistons as the 421 ho version in top spec.
    In time, and it seems not too much time there will be an emira S with the 421 Hp amd motor, that may cost more than the V6.
    That 421 hp motor has 30 psi of boost, however the aftermarket takes it to 35psi of boost and north of 500hp some say +550 hp.

    Weights are quoted as per some euro law which includes 3/4 gas and 180lbs for the driver.
    The lightest emira is a strppier I4 which currently is 3100 as per above, or by usual standards no gas or driver more like 2900 give or take. You can assume the V6 with stereo plush bits etc may weight 150-250lbs more, so figure around a comparative to USA measure standards 3100-3150bs..

    It seem plausible and certainly technicaly possible that there will be an I4 S version at 2900lbs(less driver) or lighte(2800), lighter seats, (lightweight bits and wheels). The 421 hp I4 S with an aftermarket map may easily be around 500-550hp. Hope so because thats interesting, it will also be more expensive than the V6, so z06 cayman S money.

    In the USA the manual the V6 is expected to be the volume leader. maybe lotus has learned after dealers had 75% auto evoras that its a sportscar for enthusiats, not a machine for the poseur class..

    makes sense to launch with the lowerspec I4 and let the V6 be the performer, later when the intial sales are done in ayear or two and things calm, they can drop in the more expensive I4 for those who track. CF or Glass shell seats please, dont ship a fricking car with drilled rotors thats a joke for track, Ap racing brakes with fishook rotors, and oHlin TTX. Such a spec whether you can buy it oem or have to put in the bits yourself is going to be a 120k proposition. It should also be a car that works great on road and track, there are maybe 2 oter cars that can lay that trick and theyre going t be 20-50% more $ and imprtantly more to run..
     
  11. sailfly

    sailfly Karting

    Dec 21, 2020
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  12. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
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    Excellent video, and like the proposed changes he makes, especially the lines on the side and the badge near the door top... . Maybe the facelift version in 2025 will have them ;-)
     
  13. lambchop

    lambchop Karting

    Apr 29, 2005
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    Frank emasculated the side profile. Lotus got it right.
     
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  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Seems like the vette guys are serious about getting the weight down on the z06. Interesting posisble choice vetween a 33300lbs 620 hp z06 or a 2900lbs 500hp lotus. Wonder which one will be more durable and fun on track.

    i hope that lotus gets its game on with this car, and does not do what they did with the evora, come out with better versions 2 years after the game has moved on.
     
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  15. KennyH

    KennyH F1 Veteran
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    Aug 13, 2001
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    It’s going to be near impossible to compete with the stock C8, let alone any of the higher hp versions on the way. Not a fair fight for the Lotus (as it’ll likely lose every time). More of a Cayman S / GTS competitor.
     
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  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Depends how you measure performance.
    on street cars are already too fast, what imprtant there for many is driving pleasure, cause whether you go 0-60 in 4 secs or 3 is juts an irelevant party stunt. A smaller car ona twisty road and pivot quicker, place betetr and funtionaly be faster plus more enjoyable, and its already goign to be faster than any sane eventua;ity On track despite what the fans say a corvette cannot maintain full pace due to weight, its simple lhysics. Yeah maybe in a 3 lap test its quicker than a Gt4, over 15 laps 5x per day no way, plus consumables will be obscene.

    A 500hp 2900lbs car is going to use 1/3 less tire and brake than a 600hp 3600lbs car. the lighter car will cost less to run and be able to maintain full pace for longer.

    I run a 2300lbs 370hp car and its laptime is a little quicker than the 991.2 Gt3 simply because corners are that much quicker even if its 10mph down along a long straight and I can brake that much later/deeper and less, thats low weight and small size, the corners are the fun skill bits. Therefore Im postulating that a 2900lbs car is going to need on the order of 500hp to match that pace.
    People can say a vette is as fast as they want. You need serious skill and brain calibration(from lots and lots of laps at speed) to max a 600hp car on track, 99.99% are simply overbraking early and then accelerating out a corner and down the straight, yeah all that hp gives lower laptimes than a miata, but its reallu just a fun hoon but not really learnign/imporving or maxing the car.

    A 2900lbs 500hp lotus may be slower in the hands of a pro for 3 laps, for an amateur having fun youre going to learn and imporve more in the lotus, it will be more of a challenge but an atainable one and your laptimes will probably bet better, importantly it will be more fun. I drove a Mclaren GT4 and my elsie back to back, the maclaren was less of a challenge way faster laptimes and less fun, Theres always a "faster" car like a radical. Im thinking whats a better car, thats still really really fast, a car one can keep growing into for years.
     
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  17. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
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    garbage music and no lap time :(



    .
     
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  18. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    So far what we know.
    Looks nice in pics, seems to sound nice, cahssis seems to be an evolution of what came in the evora.

    Somewhere in the future Lotus may doa sportier version with the puka amg motor.

    Jenson says it works on track which is rare for a road car, hes a spokesman for lotus but that is also a telling statemnt.
     
  20. eurocg

    eurocg Karting

    Jun 14, 2019
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    Not sure really.

    I think part of buying the car is aligning to the brand. Now there is nothing wrong with Porsche. I have had a few GT cars in the past, but I like the idea of owning a Lotus. It is not about getting the maximum performance for the money to me.

    I am hoping it provides a great driving experience with a unique little car.

    It is why I can’t bring myself to buy a new Lambo. Would love to grab a Diablo. But sadly, I do not fit.

    I mean if we were just looking at dollar for performance. We would all have C8s.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  21. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

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    #196 SpyderBite, Aug 15, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    Agreed re: needing to be able to line-up with the brand one is buying, especially as the price of a car goes up. Though in some ways it can be about the brand "not being a negative", as opposed to needing to be a positive.

    There's a lot of debates and emotions on Lotus forums about the price of the Emira. The initial pricing thrown out by Lotus really grabbed a lot of attention from more price-sensitive potential buyers to be able to buy a car that looks like it should be in the $100k's.

    The Emira price matters to me, but for a different reason. There has to be a decent relationship between price and performance. To your point, it's not about finding the absolute best performance for the dollar, there are other factors that weigh in. But both owning & having owned a lot of performance cars with a lot more power, heck, even my cheap daily driver packing in a better engine (including being NA & having an 8300rpm redline)... Frankly the stock horsepower for an Emira DCT car really bothers me, and therefore the Emira needs to be at this price range (let's call it somewhere in the $90k's though I'd love for it to be less) for me to fully justify it. Otherwise, why not just pay more and step into something better.

    My hope is that Lotus ends up putting the "standard spec" engine found in the US AMG GLA45 & CLA45 which makes 382hp and more importantly 354lb-ft of torque. The real cross-my-fingers-moment will be if the ECU is "tuner friendly" like the Mercedes are. Then I could see myself holding onto the car for a very long time. When we're talking tune, I don't need anything crazy like this 500hp talk. I suspect getting up to 440hp and maybe 380 lb-ft of torque would be great, it's more about moving up the area under the curve, getting the turbo even more responsive aided by a freer flowing exhaust, etc than peak numbers.

    My worst fear is that the 2.0 liter engine arrives detuned vs. the GLC45/CLA45 and the ECU programming can't be altered, in which case I wonder if I'll cash out after the first couple years of driving it because it just doesn't thrill me enough & with no way to remedy. This isn't purely about power, it's also that the engine already has 3 knocks against it-- it's turbocharged & won't sound amazing, won't have great throttle-response characteristics of NA or supercharged, and isn't a high rev'er.
     
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  22. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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  23. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
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    Did you try a Roadster? I hated the coupe, but 30,000 feet of headroom fit just right, amazing car to drive.
     
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  24. sainthoo

    sainthoo Formula 3
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    If I’m not mistaken, JB is a principal in the company making that car. Still awesome.
     
  25. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Karting

    Feb 18, 2014
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    I liked the headroom on the roadster :), and was surprised to find how comfortable the seat was. But tall people also tend to have big.. Feet. Very little foot space and the pedals are so crammed in there, my foot would come into contact with 2 pedals when trying to actuate 1.

    Yeah, JB is great, but with his Lotus/Radford ties, I'd really only pay attention if he had criticisms. Looking forward to (eventually) hearing feedback on the cars from someone truly independent.
     

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