No skin in the V12 game, but I’m sensing a reboot situation with 812SF replacement in 2023. I think they will go mid to rear engine N/A only V12… and then I will be a buyer.
I hope you are right. A rear mid engine flat plane V12 regular production spider may be the only thing to pry the GTS out of my hands. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
That would be epic, but I can’t see how they’d do that when they have the SF90 (and its future iterations). Two mid-rear engined production supercars, presumably with somewhat similar overall designs because how different can you make them look (?); one a V8 hybrid, the other a NA V12. Also, their power would have to be within 100-200 hp as well. Too much competition within the brand pirating sales from the other. If the V12 made same or better power than SF90 who would buy the SF90? And if the V12 made less power, well, that would be a shame to directly compare its performance to the V8 hybrid.
I agree with you which is why a rear midV12 is a dream and a hope but realistically a front mid is what we will see as the 812 replacement- hopefully light enough, and powerful enough to keep it relevant. The next mid V12 will be the LaFerrari replacement with enough hybrid juice to give it an edge over the SF90 Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I presume the SF90 will be replaced with a new model by 2024...(the 'new V12' rumored for reveal at end of 2023) and that SF90 replacement, more powerful (likely). When Ferrari elevated the V8/turbo/hybrid as the new standard bearer, it almost seems like there will be no new V12 in regular production (yes, in hypercar/icona) and it will be quite a challenge for them to put a V12 back into regular production after being out of production for years (reference: 812SF coupe, for all practical purposes, has been out of production for about a year, yes, an odd one or two here and there). I guess I have my doubts that a new V12 regular production will happen, currently production would first start in 2024, that's a long time from now and the EU regulations are on the fast track to zero emissions and Euro7 will only be fully voted on/set for implementation later this year. And if Euro7 regulations seriously diminish nitrous oxide and ammonia and other trace element emissions it may make it impossible to make a non-hybrid for 2026 and beyond, cars put into production prior would presumably have a grace period, but, maybe not. The other part of the new V12 rumor is it will have more power and not hybrid, the only way that seems possible is with a larger displacement. I hope for the best, but I do wonder what they will do, especially when the actual regulations (Euro7) are not yet assigned. That's probably why a reveal in late 2023 so Ferrari can have time to adjust this new V12 to correlate with the regulations.
I believe the SF90 is the replacement for the 812SF. At one point the 812SF will phase out and only the SF90 will be produced. Similar to what is going to happen to the 296 GTB and F8 Tributo...
You may be right. Sad if true because V12s will then only be available to the Uber-clients in the form of icons cars. Deep down I think you may be correct, which is why I am planning on keeping my 812SF when my GTS arrives. I think a V8 car may have to leave the garage...
ive read plan is for ferrari to use hybrid on v12 as well as v8. the v12 will be designed to be very high rpm screamer with hybrid used to fill in low rpm torque and govt regulations. will be much preferable to v8tt hybrid
If that future V12 engine is using GDI (as existing V12) and not MPI or a mix, then GPF will eliminate all "screaming" above 5K or so...I'm sure they are well aware of that, without a fuel injection method (MPFI/MPI/PI) to eliminate the need for GPF, it's not going to help if it is high RPM, no screaming will be heard...
Sad if true but I think they will devise a way bc they know how important sound is to ferrari. Or aftermarket will do it
Look at the 812c, they couldn't make it happen, their focus is on intake sounds. By 2024, EU regulations might require such invasive nanny controls making changes to the exhaust system impossible even for the aftermarket. For example, see page 14/15 here: https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2020_04_Road_to_Zero_last_EU_emission_standard_cars_vans_buses_trucks.pdf for instance, from page 15: To prevent tampering occurring in the first place, tamper protection of the emissions control system must be significantly improved as part of Euro 7 and stricter penalties for tampering must be introduced at the national level.
This doesn't sound incredibly encouraging to me... Ferrari boss has no fears over electric future | Reuters
Wrong term, inappropriate... a boss, it was LCDM ! in this case, we speak of a senior executive, like his 2 predecessor.
…and we expect him (boss or senior manager) to say what exactly? “I’m really afraid of an electric future but hope somehow people still buy our cars?” Ferrari’s job is to Ferrarify whatever set of regulations they are handed, not to flout or ignore the regulations and certainly not to change them. Test is whether they still make products that people who love driving want to buy. Nobody knows how or whether they will succeed at this.
This particular discussion revolves around what powerplant may be in an 812 successor. Some...me included...has a glimmer of hope that Ferrari was going to hold out as long as they could before moving to a full hybrid line of offerings. The statement today has removed that glimmer for me. I think the following type of press release should be expected sometime soon from Ferrari... Lamborghini plans to electrify entire range by 2024 | Automotive industry | The Guardian
If you listen to the webcast of today's Q2 results call, John seems to be quite relaxed about the impact of future regulations on the ICE in Ferraris.
