Skim read the thread this morning. A few thoughts of mine 1. While I think it is unlikely Ferrari would not offer a V12 in the EU there is a precedent in Ferrari's history for withdrawing the 12 from certain markets. The Boxer and 400 were never offered in the US market due to not being able to meet emmissions regs there, or more to the point Ferrari didn't see the business case for making them compliant even though it was the biggest market. 2. Not seen this discussed (apologies if it has) but I would imagine any new Ferrari V12 is going to feature cylinder deactivation technology. If they can make the car run as a 4 or 6 cylinder in certain situations it will be a big help (although not a magic bullet) in meeting emmissions targets. I believe the Bentley W12 already does this although maybe Ferrari can take the tech a step further? 3. A mid rear V12 replacement for the 812 is unlikely IMO. The 296 and SF90 cover that market in both price and performance and a V12 would create unneccessary packaging compromises without a performance gain over the existing cars. 4. The SF90 and 296 also could allow Ferrari to make the 812 replacement a bit more GT and a bit less supercar, maybe more of a big Roma? That might also appeal to GTC4Lusso customers that don't want the FUV/Purosangue. Certainly I can see the styling being more focused on asthetics than ultimate downforce.
The new purosangue V12 will be a game changer for the whole Ferrari range. This is why i don't see a front engined V12 for the 812 SF replacement.
Nowadays you just have to say the right things or the MSM will tear you up. I would take this with a grain of salt. This is 14 years in the future, a lot can change between now and then.
Cylinder deactivation in a V12 extreme sports car? From the same mind that thought up start/stop no doubt.
Isnt that what we are talking about though? Not sure if I missed some other reason an 812 replacement would have this.
The gist of the thread (as its always been since the Enzo) is that the NA V12 has reached it's maximum. No way to extract another horse from it. Must go forced induction or electric assist or both. Yet rivals can do +11k rpm and 1,000 hp in a road car. The other concern is GPF for particulates due to DI which Ferrari should have no issue overcoming IMO. Sound also an issue since the F8 and now the 812C sound like crap. Fuel mileage is not something of a concern for the replacement and cylinder deactivation is moronic in such a car, also IMO.
The Ferrari V12 peaked with the pre-GPF 812 Superfast and every iteration after will have ever more and more emissions cheating devices. First thing i do when i start up my 812SF is to turn off the Stop/Start which has now become so second nature it no longer needs conscious thought. The replacement will be faster on paper but will undoubtedly will be compromised due to this and will lose character and noise in the process. It will be a faster more modern car but in the process become physically bigger, heavier and quieter. Real shame but in many eyes will be seen as progress and help save the planet.
I agree with that being moronic but for the companies trying to find ways to get better mileage to keep it in regs to be produced still. I would rather have deactivation than a turbo and smaller displacement. Anyways the deactivation feature is only used under the most basic circumstances in the other model and in my experience is only turned on under the most limited of accelerator pedal pushing and low rpm positions and is readily deactivated when switching modes which at least preserves usual function. And as always my opinion, sounds like crap is a no go on these cars.
Cosworth's skill is in making race car engines, and never a road car V12, we'll see how often it requires a rebuild....maybe every 6000 miles...who knows. Ferrari makes engines to last (in road cars)...
I doubt mileage is a key factor when buying a luxury SUV or a Ferrari, let alone a Ferrari luxury SUV.
The car that motor is in also costs $3M+. It’s not that Ferrari can’t make an engine like that, it’s just if they did the car would be ridiculously expensive, require tremendous overhaul costs and not be really what their broad market wants. We all say we want a 1000hp v12 that spins to 11k (and of course we do) but how many are willing to pay the price, deal with it overheating at stop lights and requiring a overhaul every 5000 miles? By far and wide, the market for these cars want something that looks flash, is compfy enough to take their date in, and get to the store and back without exploding. The cosworth example is an apples to oranges comparison that for some reason people like to make because they think it proves a point. Why not just say, “hey Ferrari should just put their formula 1 engine in these things!” Again, sure we all want a 20000 RPM 1 litre engine that makes all that power but good luck with that. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Are you speaking as an engineer? The 812 Competizione is the pinnacle of that F140 V12. In the LaFerrari it made the same specific power; this seems to be the end of the current V12. A new one is in order.
