car design thread | Page 500 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Good article with some interesting observations, including about designers living in a twilight zone, but I don’t get the love for the LC 500. Apart from the fact that it has an overall pleasing outline and stance, and a certain sheerness of form, it’s a mess of random, disconnected shapes, lines and surfaces. Contrary to Peter’s assertions, I don’t think Mitchell would approve. No way.
     
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  2. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Interesting observation. As I read Peter's opinion of the Lexus, I too was thinking about Mitchell and how he would have responded.

    I do like the surface development of the Lexus, it's the front end I can't get past.
     
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  3. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    IMHO, the Lexus RC is "cleaner." However, it also stems from the same mother.
     
  4. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

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    I love this bit: "My observation was it would have looked so much better and upscale if they had executed a smaller section. The pieces on that car look like they went to Home Depot for the material.
    Just my $ .02"

    I do think the headlights have a few issues in both size and scale, but the part that I find most jarring is that 1960's grille! With all the work that went into this project could a more contemporary interpretation of that grille not have been attempted? Seriously, that is possibly the single most important piece of the design and they "photoshop" on a historic grille??
    Massive fail!
     
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  5. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Other than the grill I really like the LC500
     
  6. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

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    The rest of the car is so good I can almost ignore the gaping maw...
     
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  7. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Its on my short list of potentials in the future. I can look past the maw lol
     
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  8. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

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  9. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Fun piece about Harley Earl's Industrial Design office outside of GM.



    What's Good For General Motors is Good For America
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    1957 photo shows Harley with a prototype of an underarm aerosol deodorant for the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA).

    Does this old adage, above, still hold true?

    The flames of the U.S. auto capital along with the design legacy of GM were both burning low at the beginning of the 21st Century. But, after 2009's bottom the spirit and influence of Detroit's winning heritage began to turn and rise up. Former GM vice chairman Bob Lutz drove the point home during a candid CBS 60 Minutes TV interview in 2006 saying, "During the parade of GM’s greatness in the 50s and 60s, design ruled and the finance people ran behind to try and reestablish order and pick up the pieces. We just lost the focus on design." Lutz also acknowledges to CBS's Steve Kroft, "that GM became complacent over the years producing too many anonymous cars with uninspired designs and delegating the design process too low in the corporate structure."

    This type of honest and soulful declaration coming from a top GM leader, to a major "investigative journalist" on prime time TV in front of millions of America, on the true history and current condition of GM's powerful Car Design legacy was a pivotal moment. Why? For a leading GM exec hadn't gone out on a limb (for Design) in over 40-years. The announcement showed that GM could, and actually would, change moving forward!

    Here's a couple of quotes about America's Car Design Pioneer, "His (H.J. Earl) importance in US business history cannot be overstated, with many parallels to the way Steve Jobs' leadership's blend of aesthetics, marketing, and technology blazed a trail of innovation" wrote Oliver Marks in ZDNET.com's tech article, Harley Earl's Influence On Steve Jobs. "His drive to execute his vision turned Harley Earl into a car industry disruptor, 70 years before disruptors became cool. GM's competitors didn't want to redesign their cars every year. But Harley Earl's success forced them to," wrote Thom Patterson in a special transportation article for CNN, Steve Jobs and the King of Stylish Cars.

    Basically, if GM starts promoting "Design" much higher in the company's corporate structure, again, they can quickly get on the right path to return to greatness. After which, America’s largest auto maker would immediately reap the benefits – sending out the right signal/message to savvy consumers and the global business audience how, "although we (GM) lost our design edge for some time, we've clearly got it back and intend to use it from now on to create cutting edge design and excellent enginered products."

    Design Capital
    “Detroit is the design capital of the U.S.A.," wrote founding editor of Industrial Design (I.D.) magazine, Jane Thompson (formerly Mitarachi), when summing things up in her editorial for the Oct. '55 issue; mag's cover story reads, "Design In Detroit – a special report on design in a major industrial center." Articles inside boils down how Harley had created Detroit's Dependency on Design and how this new juggernaut was now directly impacting the national economy year-in-and-year-out so it's easy to say now that back in the 50s and 60s, many top journalists and leaders in and outside the worlds of design and automobiles, knew all about the fact sheet of America's greatest car designer.

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    Overall base of clients (abbreviated list) all bore the Earl stamp of tasteful, quality design.

    Manufacturers who were giants in their particular fields turned to GM's design czar, Harley Earl, to style some of their most important products...products of immense diversity.

    That's why Mr. Earl established his independent design firm, the Harley Earl Corporation, outside of General Motors in 1945 and a decade later located his unique company directly across the street from the GM Tech Center. Walking inside his design firm, people could see a client roster board, on left, that read like a "who's who" of American industry.

    In 1956, the one-of-a-kind Styling Section Design center building was heralded as the command post of the entire GM Tech Center and leading business leaders of the era also recognized GM, Detroit and America’s auto industry as the crown jewels of the business world. Back then, the evidence was everywhere for General Motors and Ford Motor Co. (these crosstown rivals were both headquartered in all places, Metro Detroit), were best-known as the No. 1 and No 2 largest companies in the world. But the most astounding statistic of all was that GM was twice the size of Ford, the No. 2 largest company in the world! These were amazing times of promise and great possibilities for America’s auto capital.

    Here's a bit of scholarly evidence that was withheld all these years: The Car Design Profession is the No. 1 reason GM and Detroit became so enormously successful throughout the golden heyday years of the 1950s and 1960s – and it's the number one reason America's auto world tanked so badly afterwards.

    Organizing the Automobile Design Profession turned out to be a field that revolutionized the auto world and permanently changed the face of capitalism. Harley Earl's accolades include such iconic business milestones as the annual model change, the world's first concept car, dynamic obsolescence, first to introduce clay modeling to the auto world, the Corvette, the first-ever onboard computer in an automobile, and – the standardization of secrecy in car design.

    In 1956 Harley said, "Few every have the opportunity to see the inside of a professional design studio, since secrecy is a necessary part of the process," and this was right before the auto design profession would go on to become a global phenomenon starting in the 1960s. After which, every worldwide automaker quickly went on to adopt HJE's technologically savvy way of pre-engineering and/or building modern cars and trucks using his new design sword of power.

    From industrial espionage to crash test dummies, from heated seats to turn signals, Americans unknowingly interact with Pioneer-Earl's lifestyle creations every day and his automotive DNA runs through us all. In 1927, Harley Earl put "design" on the business map by creating the very first corporate department, Art & Colour, committed entirely to expertly designing all GM's products. By 1937, Earl's department was the primary reason this company was rapidly gaining new market share and totally displaced Ford Co. and become the No. 1 auto maker in the world. Soon after, Earl was elevated to corporate vice president status and consequently he renamed his new department the GM Styling Section.

    Harley's timeless mantra (which he was ridiculed for saying after first arriving in Detroit's auto world): "appearance and function are of parallel importance." Now, design powers the business world of sales.
     
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  10. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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  11. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Maybe the design world is finally running out of permutations and combinations?
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  12. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

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  13. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    I've been hearing some buzz about the new Cadillac ST5 Blackwing and started looking around. I have to say I'm not much of a fan of the redesign from the CTS. The front is too rounded off, it loses that edge the CTS had, especially in V trim of course. And what is with the long sloping back end, it looks like a hatchback and really reminds me of the old Chevy Citations. And no, that's not a good thing. :)

    I'd be interested in hearing some opinions here, obviously especially so from John.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g30693114/2020-cadillac-ct5-350t-by-the-numbers-gallery/?slide=22
     
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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    My friends that are driving the CT5 V Blackwing cars can't say enough good things about them. The performance is world class.

    I'm going to PM you for your other question.
     
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  15. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  16. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    I think the side scoop should be smaller and shaped like a NACA duct like on the original Countach. I hate most of these stylized crooked NACA ducts they put on cars now. Yes the Ken Okuyama version is better.
     
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  17. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Im not sure this question technically belongs here, but what the heck...

    Seats in the late 70s to late 80s were SOOOOOO much more comfortable than any seats these days. Even the modern Rolls and Bentley's Ive been in dont compare to these 80s GM seats. It was like riding in your favorite recliner.


    So what happened? Why are seats less comfortable now?

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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Actually those are Chrysler seats.
    I’ll take a stab at this.
    Like most things there were a multitude of reasons. Several being:
    American car buyers during this period were shunning the Domestic US brands for European and Asian competitors. For the most part, particularly the Germans, firm seating was considered de rigueur and the soft overstuffed seats in American seats were considered outdated. This was a period of great upheaval with the US mfg. dealing with downsizing/safety/fuel economy/gov regulations.
    In essence the dogs weren’t buyin’ the dog food.

    Buyers voted with their wallets and the traditional domestic executions fell out of favor. Style certainly played a role as well. Like fashion, it was no longer ‘in’ to have those lounge like seats in cars. Buyers wanted ‘firm/supportive’, not ‘club lounge’.
    Manufacturing complexity also plays a role. No longer are a multitude of interior colors offered. You can choose, black, black or black. If you’re lucky, a grey will be offered. The days of colorful interiors pretty much died years ago. Predicting the tastes of the public is an art. It’s easy to get it wrong.

    Maybe with autonomous cars coming, buyers will want the soft cushiony seats again. Ask pre-teens.o_O
     
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  19. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Ah, yes, the General Motors Chrysler Fifth Avenue... :D

    I would guess that the Fifth Avenue style of seat suited American cars on American roads at the time. You aren't exactly going to get flung around the seat when the cars are incapable of cornering like a Ferrari. Improved handling, higher cornering capabilities, and increased lateral G-forces forced modern cars to have bolsters providing legitimate lateral support, which you aren't going to get with your favorite recliner bolted into the car. Then there's durability/wear, ease of cleaning, and the demand for features such as heated seats, cooled seats, and massaging seats... none of which would be felt through thick cushion like the 1980s luxury seats.

    They're not as soft, but I'd definitely prefer my air-conditioned leather Ford Edge seats to the thick warm pillowy Chrysler Fifth Avenue seats in 100 degree Alabama summer weather. :oops:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  20. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  21. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  22. lambchop

    lambchop Karting

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