458 Pirelli P-Zero Catastrophic Tire Failure on Highway in 458 *photos*

Well then something is up. Did you look at the tires when you did buy her ?

As suggested look at the other wheels as that might give a clue what the previous owner did.

 

Forget Pirelli go back to the dealer where you bought the car.

 

Another consideration:

Is the TPMS system active in the car? (tire pressure monitoring system), due to age the batteries in the "straps" at each wheel may be expired and no pressure readings are occurring (or the straps are completely missing or are damaged).

If the TPMS system is not active, then you would not have had any warning of a flat tire, otherwise, if functioning it should warn when tire pressure is too low.

 

Isn’t the nail/screw the most likely cause of underinflation followed by tire damage?


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Glad you are ok, looks like worn down screw in the tire, but not sure how that hurts the sidewall. (Low pressure and to much stress on the sidewall?)

Get some Michelin Pilot Sports and I will send you a set of brand new in box Set of Silver 458 Forged Wheels, Caps, and TPMS at Ferrarichat brother in law prices. One you put the lightweight 5 spoke forged wheels on, you will wonder how you ever rode on the OEM Enki super heavy wheels.

In the mean time I will ask my guys here in Houston if they can find you Pilot Sports in stock if you can’t find them.

Cheers, Mat

 

So I sent an email to a contact at Michelin, just asking in general terms. I asked specifically about how tyres would normally fail if it was down to low pressure. He was very clear that unless the tyre was almost flat, the inside of the tyre would be the point of failure, not the outer edge or wall. This is because the camber loads the inside much harder, and thus run hotter and scrub significantly more than the outside. He finished off by saying that most outside failures occur because of damage such as "Snakebites", bubbles caused by damage to the belts, cracks due to ageing or defects.

Note that I never mentioned a specific model or brand of tyre, just asked about tyres of this type in general, so his answer does not reflect his affiliation with Michelin.

My question was simply, how will a low profile high performance tyre fail if low pressure is the cause, and what is usually the cause of outer sidewall or outer edge failures?

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That observation presumes NEGATIVE camber...but if positive (highly unlikely to be perfectly neutral camber), the tire leans to the outside edge, without knowing the alignment spec....and we have no photos of the inside edge nor any of the other tires...

 

I have done a lot of camber adjustment on 4X8 cars, and the chance of it running normal with any kind of positive camber is zero. They come with -1*25' from the factory if things are correct. If that was to be changed to positive camber, that would mean a serious A-arm or hub carrier defect, if not a twisted chassis due to an impact.

Furthermore, if the failure was not due to the inflation but rather alignment, it would scrub the inside, not the outside, unless of course the camber was severely off.

The OP stated that the alignment was checked, and checked out right. It's not that hard for a Ferrari dealer to find another wheel to put on just as a tool for measurement. 458 wheels are to be found at most dealers in one form or another. They don't even need an actual 458 wheel, just two identical wheels that bolt up. They could be off a 599 and it wouldn't matter as long as they are true and the same. I see no reason to suspect him of not telling the truth. He also clearly stated that the outside was what failed, not the inside. What on earth would he gain by misleading us here?

I've seen a lot, and I will be the first to say the Ferrari delivers cars with atrociously poor alignments from the factory. My Pista had toe in on the right rear wheel and toe out on the left. The camber was hilarious too. But one thing I have never seen, even on cars that has hit many track kerbs, is positive camber.

I just don't see that as a possibility on a car that drove properly. Had it been so badly knocked that camber was positive, toe would be off by several degrees - and factory rear toe is about 11 minutes per side.

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Too bad we will probably never know for certain the specifics of this case.

Good discourse nevertheless

I still think this gives a clue for riding on the outside:

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otherwise, what would cause that wear pattern?

 

I've seen similar wear on the sidewall on other tyres that has been run on when flat. Remember that the loss of air was instant, and he was going 55 mph. So he does manage to do quite a bit of distance before getting on the shoulder and safely bring the car to a stop. Add to that the very likely scenario of the car moving about a bit as grip is lost, along with a limited slip diff trying to spin both wheels at the same speed, all of which will quickly scrub the sidewall on both inside and out. It takes mere seconds and a few revolutions in those conditions to create all kinds of wear patterns.

I have been in situations on track where pressure was a bit on the low side until the tyres got hot, and even with them rolling over a bit, it never came to that kind of wear pattern.

To me it just looks like wear caused by driving at 55 mph for a bit on a completely flat tyre.

If anything, that pattern there looks like what you sometimes see on tyres which are a bit "dry".
Look closer - along with the wear, it actually looks like there's a bit of "crumbling" and cracking going on. Again, drying out and cracking is a known issue with the third gen PZero.



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Glad that you are unhurt, and that the car is as well, but this is much less important, we know.
I am following this post with great interest but... following JTSE30 suggestion, may I ask what is that thing that looks a lot like a puncturing item of some sort, e.g. a nail, a screw, a rivet... I am a bit surprised of the low consideration that is given to the tire being found punctured or not, following what has been highlighted in the picture.
In case what JTSE30 is suggesting is confirmed I honestly believe that there should be not so much talking about what happened... it is absolutely normal that a punctured tire loses pressure and, as a consequence of it, two things happen: 1) the sides of the thread get abnormal wear, and 2) the tire eventually blows, due to the heat buildup caused by excessive case deformation (unless you stop in time). It is something I personally experienced on a completely different car/tire: nail in the tread area, catastrophic side/tread failure, abnormal edges wear found on the tread.
So, just for my understanding, can you please confirm/deny that something punctured the tire? And in the latter case, what is then the thing that JTSE30 has pointed out?
Thanks for helping me understand.

 

Bottom line - a two year old tire with 5k miles will probably be reimbursed by the manufacturer at 50% of its initial value. Assuming it was a true failure, Ferrari should make you whole (a nice gesture, but don’t count on it), or throw some additional skin in the game.

I clipped a fallen rock which took out both passenger side sidewalls (they were only a few months old but had 5,000 miles on them).

Michelin prorated it and offered 50% of their value, which I gratefully accepted.

In your position I’d start negotiating at full replacement but accept 50%. We’re talking a few hundred dollars here, so pick and choose your battles accordingly.

PS - forgot to mention, but TPMS sensors need to be replaced after 7 years. I had 4 tires replaced and didn’t think to do it. You can guess the rest………(failure after failure within months).

 

Very mild spirited driving, underinflated tire, alignment out of spec (OP said was good), worn/failed bushings for starters

 

I posted a link to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S in the 458 size. Why are you thinking of Kumho's when the successor to the MPSS is available?

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Where is your link, I did not see it.

My guy can get the MPS4S. My cost shipped to Houston is $1900.00

Not cheap but he says about 5 business days.

 

I mentioned Kuhmos earlier, as another possibility not successor, they are a good tire, in a pinch, at least it is not a Pirelli and is available now, but I see the Houston guru can arrange for MPS4S asap.

 

An alternative if the 458 OE size is on backorder, is the Lusso set of MPS4S.

The rears are the same size, but the fronts are 245 instead of 235. Works really well and kill a bit of the annoying understeer. I've tried two 458's with this setup and it's better than both the OE MPSS and the MPS4S in OE size. No rubbing or other fitment issues. The Lusso wheels are the same width as the 458 wheels, and zero ESC/ABS issues.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&frontTire=435YR0PS4SXLV3&rearTire=935YR0PS4SXL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

 

Why do the questions about the existing (potential) tire puncture continue to be ignored?

 

fair enough!

I do wonder about the potential for TPMS failure, and you might have been riding on an underinflated tire (with a slow leak) for some time. Seen that happen before and very unfortunate.