Purchase 360 with rebuilt engine? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Purchase 360 with rebuilt engine?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Vol34, Sep 13, 2021.

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  1. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2017
    1,701
    Melbourne Florida
    Full Name:
    KGC
    Verify, verify, and then... verify. Once I drove a distance to look at a car that the owner claimed that he had the transmission rebuilt. When I got there and asked to see the receipt, he handed me an invoice that showed that the fluid and filter had been changed--- that's it. Liars indeed.
     
    one4torque likes this.
  2. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2003
    991
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Verify per the repair order. You need to know what was repaired, as stated by others in this thread.
    Only red flag is the number of miles since the rebuild. Would be better with some additional time to make sure everything is right.
    Shop that did the work.... no need to identify....sounds like they stand by their work so that's a plus.
    Had a shop rebuild a Ferrari V12 for me several years ago. Took them 3 times to get it right and they are no longer in business. So be careful on this one.
     
    kryten2001 likes this.
  3. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    605
    Northern AZ.
    Mistakes do happen..this one is to be taken very seriously. I have NOT read every thread so pls forgive me if my question has been asked.
    I not aware of how they repaired this mistake and what parts were replaced...compromised con rod bearings or worse main bearings present a serious rebuild or engine replacement.
    My question to the OP...If you have not already get oil pressure readings...with operating oil temps or highier...witness this first hand.
    Make sure they are not using a hghier viscosity oil to hide increased bearing running clearance from lack of oil.
    Good luck.
     
  4. patina

    patina Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2005
    502
    Lake Norman, NC
    If done properly, I would see this as a huge plus.
     
  5. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    So I spoke with the shop and it sounds a lot better than I first thought. Shop consists of two mechanics who are both Ferrari certified and did the training in Italy. They've been doing it for at least 25 years each. They drove the car after the incident and it was not making any noises with the fresh oil. They pulled the pan etc to look and could see some discoloration on one of the bearings and in the area of the crank (I'm getting records for specifics). No metal scoring or chunking but the discoloration obviously indicated some oil starvation so they pulled the engine, replaced the crank, connecting rods and the bearing. They also pulled the two pistons in the affected area....and the head to check them out... and inspected the top end and cams. All new gaskets/seals when going back together, timed the cams and all new belts at no charge to the owner. No pistons or rings were replaced so no worries on a break in or them seating...which was a big concern of mine. Hoping this car works out. I plan to fly and see it next week.
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  6. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 World Champ
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    Jul 8, 2016
    10,013
    The CSA
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    Me
    I'd personally see it as a plus....but being it's a Ferrari , you can always use that as a negotiating tool. Just be warned, when you go to sell it, your potential buyer will too. When I was searching, one of the cars I was considering had the engine REPLACED at a dealership. Some people on here told me to steer clear. To this day, it still makes no sense to me. These are just fancy machines. after all.
     
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  7. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,646
    Silicon Valley
    If you can confirm everything with receipts and invoices, it wouldn’t be a problem for me. I’d also have compression checked. Good luck and enjoy.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    one4torque likes this.
  8. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    605
    Northern AZ.
     
  9. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2017
    1,701
    Melbourne Florida
    Full Name:
    KGC
    Also... be sure to scrutinize all "invoices" "work orders" etc. One 360 I was looking at had quite a few "invoices" included in the documentation that were in reality, under a closer look, only estimates of work to be preformed. The work was never done.
     
  10. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
    5,123
    Houston
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    One4torque
    Kc- now that’s funny!

    pad the book w estimates
     
  11. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    Yep, I've seen that before too. Thanks
     
  12. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 16, 2012
    21,570
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    Jim
    1500 miles is a lot. This should be less severe than a brand new engine from the factory, and they surely don't say to baby it for 1500 miles. The only thing that really needs 'breaking in' on an engine is the piston rings/cylinder walls. They took two pistons out, but OP didn't say whether they put back with same rings, nor whether they honed the cylinders (no reason to unless new rings). Regardless, a few hundred miles with lots of RPM variation (note: I did not say redline, just varying) would be enough to ensure no infant mortality. An oil change, possibly with oil analysis, and a leakdown check as part of a PPI would be prudent.
     
  13. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    Thanks. I agree. I did say in a later post that no new pistons or rings were installed so I feel better about it. Mechanic told me due to that fact it doesn't really need a break in. It either functions properly from the get go or you are hearing noises etc. Seller said he was told to keep it under 4k rpm for 1000 miles. I plan to fly there and get this sorted in person if this all works out.
     
  14. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    Best wishes and good luck.
     
  15. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
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    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    Thanks for all the advice and dialogue.
     
  16. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 16, 2012
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    Where is there, generally speaking?

    I had a brand new timing belt bearing freeze while it was still at the shop. Belt melted and a couple pistons had intimate contact with some valves. Pistons were ok but 9 valves were replaced and head reworked. For better or worse, I was on the track at well under 1000 mi.
     
  17. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,309
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Given the number of opinions I wouldn't touch it. Needs a big discount.
     
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  18. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
    5,123
    Houston
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    One4torque
    Sj—. Agree.


    Sounds like he’s talking himself into the deal.

    there are too many for sale wo this risk and story.

    but I’m done typing on this one and wish you best of luck.

    I hope it works out!
     
  19. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
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    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    Ouch. You track a 360 or the car in your profile pic?
     
  20. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
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    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    Not talking myself into the deal but more open to it once I talked to the certified Ferrari mechanic. I won't do it without documentation and the right price. I do feel like it's worth running this one out. You're right, there are a lot of 360's for sale. Almost all of them are at dealers with ridiculous price tags...most in the high 80's up to $110k or more.....and this is for F1 cars with nothing special about them. 95% of the dealers I have talked to have no knowledge of the car, no service records and are trying to push it out the door without doing anything to the cars. There is one at Rolls Royce of Raleigh. They were asking $100k for months. They dropped it to $90k and I have called to inquire several times....hoping to negotiate it down if it makes sense. I have never seen a car dealer try so hard not to sell a car. After several weeks, they cannot give me an answer of if their own service department did any fluid changes or any service to the car....they say they'll call back and never do...All they can give me is a carfax and they "think" they got it from an auction or a dealer in New Mexico. The "Sales Manager" said he would call me back by end of day Monday with a clutch reading. Didn't do it....then it was Tuesday...didn't do it....I couldn't get him on the phone today but a receptionist, who was standing next to him passing info, said the car is too old for their computer so they have to send it out for a clutch reading. I don't expect that will happen and I'll never hear from them. They are still 10k high in price. The car from Ohio I spoke about earlier in this thread is listed in California on Autotrader.....I spoke to them today and they said since they had clutch, belts and stickies done it is now $109k. Get outta here with that. They got that car for low 70's or lower because Toy Barn was going to sell it to me for 76k. Needed too much work. I'm tired of dealers. They want an uninformed idiot to hugely overpay. I want to find the right car from an individual. We'll see.
     
  21. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
    5,123
    Houston
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    Vol- just be super careful. I’ve been burned. So proceed w enthusiasm caution and exuberance -/))
     
  22. Vol34

    Vol34 Karting
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    Jul 6, 2021
    92
    I hear ya, brother! Appreciate it.
     
    one4torque likes this.
  23. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    And even more which are total basket cases, sold as "perfect" yet have a true story you'd never want to hear.

    Well documented cars, even those with troubles that have been properly sorted are preferable to cars with murky histories - at least in my estimation.
     
  24. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    The one thing to be careful of, when buying any classic car, is that you can trace back it's provenance and service history. The more, the better.

    Cars that have been passed around, and worse still not serviced/maintained correctly are the ones to steer clear of. I would prefer to have a car with higher milage if it meant the car had fewer owners and had been loved/serviced and maintained correctly. It really is that important.

    In my experience these old girls are completely reliable and not overly expensive to own, but only if they have been looked after to begin with. As soon as you start skimping on maintenance and treat them like a toyota, you're in for trouble.

    You want to buy from a collector/enthusiast, ideally, or at least from a dealer who specializes in these sorts of things and can give you the full story on what you're buying. Any car that came from an auction or has unknown provenance I'd be avoiding.

    Don't overly think it after that, just buy what you like and enjoy it. These cars are to be loved and enjoyed, don't try and find "that perfect deal", once you find the right car - go for it and don't look back.
     
    Vol34 likes this.
  25. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 16, 2012
    21,570
    In the past
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    Jim
    360, although I now have a 951 exclusively for tracking.
     

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