430 Is a tune needed with headers and air filters or will the ECU self adjust

I think you will run a little rich, which is better than running a little lean. Without a tune, you will not be geting the full advantage that less restrictive intake and exhaust can offer. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You can check your ltft’s

 

I can do you a multi-map these days so you can still pass emissions no problems. Pm me for more details

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

 

Just out of curiosity, Are you sure that readiness monitors will not set with an aftermarket tune? I have had tunes on most of my sports cars and I’ve never had an issue with the monitors. Perhaps it’s different in Ferrari land (no tune...yet...on the scud).

 

If ltft’s are wi spec after mods…. The engine has adjusted for afr

 

FYI - I have headers and O2 extenders and passed smog without any CELs.

 

I have a full IPE exhaust and it´s running a bit rich but i have done an oil analysis three times now without any raised levels of fuel at all. My main issue with the exhaust is the dip in the power band because of the 4-1 headers but that can´t be rectified with a tune.

 

I would like to but there aren’t any tune companies that I trust enough with a Ferrari in Sweden.

 

There have been good results sending your ecu's to Mase Engineering in Florida. He does a how to remove guide also. No affiliation. I was considering doing it from New Zealand after challenge header install but I'm happy with the car as is.

 

I’m also happy with mine and it really runs well and pulls hard. It’s a hassle removing and sending the ECUs so I’ll wait for now.

 

Over the past few years now I have written and developed highly sophisticated "differential analysis" software and tooling to allow me to see the minutiae of many significant (to end consumer) differences across different model years of official engine firmwares. How the cars drive under various conditions , temperatures and differences in octane, etc are all impacted. So many variables it's complex to follow.

We often think of all examples of a model as driving the same but they really don't! Incredibly there are at least 40 odd official firmware releases alone for just the 360 Modena. They all drive a little bit different depending on the model year, geographic location and ofcourse the obvious condition of the said example. Generally the trend was to improve calibrations and firmware code the later into the model lifespan it gets, although it's not as clear cut as you'd imagine since later emissions regulations often have had disastrous impact on the performance on some late models too.

It's been an enlightening experience and sometimes I've seen many things integration engineers would rather I'd of not seen such as obvious bugs fixed and poorly fudged solutions botched on only to be fixed a few firmware releases later and so on but it's nothing compared to the absolute botching I've seen in the aftermarket area (more on this later).

It's worth pointing out at this stage that the manufacturer offered dealers or customers absolutely no way to "software upgrade" existing cars in the field, so if you had older less capable firmware your car was stuck with it for it's lifespan. Or so it used to be the case. But I also wrote special software to analyze your existing firmware so I can extract out essential details so I can adapt newer firmware to work on older models even with different configurations of emissions kit, sensors and wiring. Other than Bosch (who aren't interested at all) the only one who can do this period. There are indeed benefits which include smoother running, better throttle responses, fuel consumption benefits (contrary to EPAs recent crazy position) improved reliability and many bug fixes in later model years firmwares.

It's been highly useful to see the bugs corrected and differences in emissions standards implemented as they got more strict, both in terms of noise and tailpipe. I'm probably the only person crazy enough to have done this and wouldn't have been able to accomplish this without my special software.

I won't name names but I've been shocked and appalled at some of the techniques used (rushed or simply botched jobs) to try to overcome issues like header cat CELs. Now because the detailed description files simply don't exist and people are "guessing", yes crazy. Smart guessing where the approximate location of the switches to turn on and off features are. They don't have technology available which tells them unequivocally and exactly where a specific setting resides , many simply "blanket bomb" the whole area around where they want to turn off with zeros (zero being off, ones being on). What's the net effect of that? Crazy madness is what. You get some aftermarket remps which have turned off (inadvertently) safety systems such as self testing of digital throttle pedal safety (!) or how about complete removal of all raisable fault codes (yes I've even seen this!!!). Some have even turned off detonation sensing inadvertently and the list goes on... It's hell playing out and sometimes makes diagnostics of faults almost impossible. If the safety systems are deactivated for detonation for example or the thresholds raised (another trick I've observed is to set the temperature before detonation sensing becomes active to a value so high it won't ever happen in real world. This allows a tuner to claim detonation sensing is still active even when practically it's not. Just awful!). Before anyone asks no I won't name and shame.

All I'm trying to say is there is much more science involved to all of this with much higher stakes involved on a Ferrari Vs a Honda if your trusted rockstar tuner isn't as good as you or his reputation affords him. Or maybe he knows but doesn't afford the time necessary to do it right due to low volumes anticipated. Whatever the reason there are many bad surprises waiting to catch you out there.

My own personal work is based on doing things scientifically without regard for the time, effort and costs involved. Im using engine theory as well as practical testing on actual dyno's and won't ever risk an engine for the last few percent of peak hp just to gain bragging rights. It will be whatever it will be. This isn't for milking huge profits out of owners but to improve things in the right way using knowledge, expertise and factory levels of reliability. This might come across arrogantly but it's really not intended to be. I'm just highlighting there is much more to this than meets the eye and unfortunately there is no way to know how deep your local friendly tuner has gone into this Vs using off the shelf tools, description files for other models and good old fashioned guessing...



Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

 

Hmm interesting discussion and Trev thank you for providing your insights. I guess there are still a lot of sloppy firmware engineers practicing their craft regardless of what the platform is. You could damage the engine and/or void any remaining warranty. Having done firmware work in a previous life my feeling is not to mess with factory firmware and some of what Trev has says further reinforces that belief.

 

.. well that kind of depends on who is doing it and if they have sufficient skills to do it properly. Early firmware has some hideous bugs lurking. I would strongly urge to upgrade 360s , especially early model years. The later spec firmware has substantial improvements in detailed calibrations many of which where left "uncalibrated" default values just to get the car launched in early years.

Most tuners are strictly not firmware engineers! Many are just resellers...

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

 

I have done Swedish Ferrari's. An F430 with catless headers done properly and in good health will be quite a bit quicker than a 430 Scuderia with a lot more torque and Dyno proven more power "everywhere" than a stock Scud. The factory firmware will restrict power and torque considerably, even more so with sports cats or catless headers.

This isn't hearsay this is proven fact. If your a keen driver who enjoys fast roads and trackdays do it in combination with wider section Michelin PS4s and use 430 Scuderia suspension geometry with another degree of negative camber dialed in you'll be quicker in the corners too. My personal preference is to use zero toe at the front for improved steering response.



Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

 

What’s the deal with double mapping the ECU. Have people actually successfully done that? I didn’t want to mess with the ECU, but if I can get it done just to not have to deal with the O2 extenders that loosen all the time, that would be great. However, I want to make sure it will pass emissions across the country, especially if I ever sell the car to someone in California. I want to make sure the next owner won’t have any issues. I’ve only replaced the headers after the originals failed.

 

Trev, when you say early models, what years
are you referring for the 360s?


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

How do you know so much trev? Ive read a lot of your posts and you are extremely knowledgeable, thank you for taking the time to post

The ferrari forum seems one of the last forums that is active which i am glad as im a big fan of forums

Also tell me who tunes factory software? Eg is it engineers from applicable ecu maker or is it done in house by ferrari or both? Thanks

 

Does having an aftermarket tune affect the value of a Ferrari? Considering these cars are becoming collectible and prices are going up. Do concours judges care about originality down to original ecu function and all orig ex etc?

 

I dont think anyone would know
Personally i would only buy tuned car if it had tune for lots of km
Even then hesitent