F430 E-DIFF / Electronic Differential Info | FerrariChat

F430 E-DIFF / Electronic Differential Info

Discussion in '360/430' started by whatheheck, May 31, 2018.

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  1. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    F430 E-DIFF / Electronic Differential Info

    First, disclaimer: I am no expert on this subject or any subject. I just read and share what I learn to help others get educated too about our pride and joy cars.

    I see many posts about F430 E-DIFF issues so I decided to do some reading about it and learn & I thought I’d share.

    What triggered this search is my 2006 F430 F1 with 30K miles I recently had the F1 System fluid flushed, bled, system checked, recalibrated as its been over 3 years since the fluid was flushed so I felt it was due. Done using Leonardo, no fault codes present or stored. Cost: Not bad, $400.00 parts & labor from an Indi mechanic.

    Also, after replacing the OE F1 relay with Scud Ing Swiss solid state relay I get the 7 beeps fault warning once in a while especially after a spirited drive. Stef states the 7 beeps means the F1 pump is cycling more often than what Ferrari spec states. Stef states it could be a hydraulic leak or the hydraulic accumulator is nearing its usable life. I trust Stef as he is very knowledgeable about our F430’s.

    Since the Indi mechanic did not mention any hydraulic fluid leak present or any faults stored my next step is to replace the hydraulic accumulator. I understand this needs to be replaced regularly especially now that our cars are >10 years old. Rubber inside deteriorates and gets weak.

    Hydraulic Accumulator P/N: 58552368 with the Ferrari tax is about $425.00. I understand it’s the same as Fiat / Alfa Romeo Hydraulic Accumulator part for about $150.00 in eBay. Part number: 71751195. So I will have my hydraulic accumulator replaced soon. & hopefully that resolves the 7 beeps issue.

    Based on posts here, another common F1 system failure is the E-diff Control Valve (internal leakage) (part number 205742). I find them online for about $600.00.

    Anyway, for info on what E-DIFF / Electronic Differential is on an F430 written in plain English I found this: The credit goes to the writer. Im only sharing what he posted online.

    http://www.italiaspeed.com/new_models/new_models_2004/f430/diff.html

    Hope that helps some of you.

    Note: I took the liberty of making a copy of his post in case the link no longer works.

    Dan
     

    Attached Files:

    cpep likes this.
  2. PKIM

    PKIM Karting

    Jan 1, 2004
    199
    Redlands
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Hi Dan,
    Thanks for the post. I recently install the Scud eMT relay. for most part have gotten 5 beeps which means it's taking 2.5 sec to pressurize the pump (0.5 sec/beep) which is normal. I have once in a while got 7 beeps which to me means it's taking 1sec longer? Is that right? I'm assuming your not getting any red light, so why would you think it's the accumulator or the e-diff?
    Please let us know after the fix if the 7 beeps goes away. Thanks
     
  3. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Hi Paul,

    I am no expert. I rely on Stef the designer of the eMT solid state relay to interpret the beeps for me, so I reached out to him.

    Since I recently had my F1 System fluid flushed, bled (of any possible air trapped in the system) and recalibrated & I still get the 7 beeps which means the pump is running too frequently - the only thing that's left is the hydraulic accumulator and the E-Diff Control Valve.

    I dont get the 7 beeps all the time, only when i drive my car very spiritedly. Per Stef, most likely the hydraulic accumulator is nearing its usable life / getting weak.
    So I plan to have that replaced soon. But the replacement will require another bleeding of the system so it wont be cheap so I plan to monitor my system and have my F1 fluid flushed again next year, at the same time replace the E-Diff valve and hydraulic accummulator.

    Will report back once I get it done.

    Thanks.

    Dan
     
    PKIM likes this.
  4. klointheridge

    klointheridge Karting

    Jun 5, 2017
    219
    Westchester Cty, NY
    Full Name:
    Kevin Long
    Dan, do you have beeps enabled? I turned mine off...would I still get the beeping in that mode if something were wrong?

    Every once in a while I get a beep/s during spirited driving...will pay attention to how many.
     
  5. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Hi Kevin,

    Disabling the beep only disables the sleep, wake up, ECU initialization sounds. It wont disable the Alert/Fault beep and also the beeps then the pump is working.
    This is so that we can listen and get familiar on how often the pump runs. If its running to frequently we get the fault 7 beeps. Then its recommended to have the system checked to ensure there are no leaks or solenoid valve is starting to fail, or perhaps the hydraulic accumulator is nearing its usable life.

    I too get the 7 beeps when I drive my car very spiritedly. Stef recommends having the F1 system pressure checked as it could be the solenoid valve is failing or they hydraulic accumulator valve is failing. He doesnt recommend just ignoring the beep or turning it off as that fault is saying the pump is running more frequently than what Ferrari spec states.

    I am no expert. Just sharing what I learn.

    Dan
     
  6. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    513
    Sweden
    I also get the 7 beeps in the exact same way as @whatheheck. My car is going in on Thursday for changing the accumulator and troubleshooting of the system. The Ferrari specialist says he has his own diagnostic procedure that takes between 2-3 hours to go through, it includes driving the car in a specific pattern.

    I´m thinking it might be enough with only changing the accumulator and troubleshooting the system with SD3?
     
  7. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    I'm thinking the hydraulic accumulator is starting to go bad. But I say let's leave it to the expert to tell us.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  8. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    can somebody tell me how many bleeding valves are there to bleed e-diff for 430? and the sequence please?
     
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,766
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    It is possible to graph the pressure drop and recharge cycle of the system to get an idea how well it is holding pressure.
     
  10. _TS

    _TS Rookie

    Jan 20, 2019
    27
    Germany
    It was asked a long time ago in What is an E-diff?, what is actually the functional difference between "standard" slip diffs and the E-Diff. Is there anybody knowledgeable enough to share some insights? It would be interesting to learn.

    Cheers,
    TS

    P.S.: I also have the Scud Ing Smart eMT F1 Relay ECU (Basic) laying on my desk, waiting for install. Will do this in the next couple of weeks.
     
  11. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
  12. _TS

    _TS Rookie

    Jan 20, 2019
    27
    Germany
    Yes, I had read that PR/Marketing bs before asking. As you had attached it to the first post of this thread, it was hard to be missed.

    To be honest, it was more of a question (and also that of @bluekawala in the linked post) _how_ the E-Diff works. The PR text emphasizes on a particular level of innovation (in 2004) along with a list of three components making up the E-Diff. No word about what actually makes it great.

    Also Wikipedia (and other popular sources on the Internet) are your friends: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential#Types

    That being said, I would consider the most simple conceivable version, an E-Diff that simply sets different fixed levels of torque differences based on the Manettino setting. It could, however, be a whole lot more sophisticated based on speed and torque levels and so on.

    Cheers,
    TS
     
  13. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Hi TS,

    Similar to you, I searched and tried to learn as much as I can about the Ferrari E Diff and what makes it different than the other car makers limited slip differential design. I searched Google, Wiki, YouTube but cant find much info. I am an engineer by trade so Im curious on how it really works, but there's not much info out there other than high level summary of how it functions.

    Most likely the detailed design is being intentionally kept secret by Ferrari as it is their proprietary design.
    The best simple explanation I accepted is as you listed above:

    "Depending on the manetinno setting torque is continuously distributed between the wheels controlled by a hydraulic actuator. The amount of torque actually transmitted to the driven wheels depends on driving conditions (accelerator pedal angle, steering angle, yaw acceleration, individual wheel rotation speed) and brings considerable advantages in terms of performance, direction stability, active safety and handling feedback."

    Cheers.

    Dan
     
  14. _TS

    _TS Rookie

    Jan 20, 2019
    27
    Germany
    Hi guys,

    I was talking with the Ferrari mechanic the other day about the functioning of the F430 E-Diff. What he basically said is that the electronics are capable of dynamically adjusting the differential in the full range from 0% lock to full lock in a quite sophisticated way (this was new for me).

    Also he added, that - in his opinion - while there has been rapid and noticeable improvements to e.g. the gearboxes with the more modern cars, the recent E-Diffs (i.e. 458's, 488's) have a quite similar feel. There are differences in how the Diff itself is constructed nowadays and, of course, regarding the solenoids, which have been deprecated as far as I have understood. But these changes are more on the reliability/build cost/quality side of things. What he essentially meant, is that the 15-year-old F430 E-Diff is still quite close to the modern-day E-Diffs functionality/performance-wise. At least much closer when compared to other components of the car.

    Maybe that's helpful, maybe not. I found it quite enlightening.

    Cheers,
    TS
     
    whatheheck likes this.
  15. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Thanks for sharing info TS.

    Dan
     
  16. gqmd

    gqmd Rookie

    Jul 25, 2017
    46
    Can someone confirm if this is still true. Is getting the genuine Ferrari F430 accumulator equivalent to getting the FIAT part (which can only be ordered from Europe it seems)?

    The three part numbers I have seen are:

    1. Part# 247346 on algarferrari.com
    https://algarferrari.com/store/accumulator-34219
    2. Part# 58552368 (with ?requirement for 58552368-s Union Kit) from Ricambi
    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/430-group/f430-05-08/power-unit-and-tank/58552368-f1-accumulator-bottle.html
    3. Fiat Part# 71751195 from Ebay in Europe
    http://shorturl.at/gmxG7

    I am getting confused as to which is the right one to buy. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  17. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
    119
    Full Name:
    Marco
    I'll bump the thread. I'm always interested in non-ferrari original OEM parts! Anyone change the accumulator out? Seems pretty straight forward, but any info would be helpful.
     
  18. nickorette

    nickorette Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2017
    373
    Canada
    I might be wrong but from what I understand E-diff is basically another word for torque vectoring. McLaren and Porsche (and only recently Lamborghini) do this by using software to tell car to brake the inside wheel, the mechanical diff then sends torque to outside wheel. E-diff uses electronic control to increase or decrease torque split in rear wheels as applicable, it's considered a better system due to less wear on inside tires/brakes in track sessions.

    Overall it's a pretty advanced system imo especially considering it's implementation in 2004
     
    whatheheck likes this.
  19. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    469
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Dan Smith
    Part number 71751195 fits on the 430 and restored my over running pump just fine. I also saved $300 on the overpriced "Ferrari" accumulator. For $120 shipped from UK I got the EXACT accumulator with nearly identical markings and all as what was on my car from the factory.

    Many sits cross reference this part to other numbers so don't be too worried as long as it fits the same cars in general.. like a 500 1.2 8V LOL.
     
    armedferret, whatheheck and Qavion like this.
  20. Wyvern

    Wyvern Rookie

    Jul 27, 2016
    9
    Search for US Patent 7641585. It describes the system and the control strategy very well.

    USPTO.GOV is the most direct method.

    My conclusion is that a leaking solenoid would be bad for pressure loss, but a goofy controller making the solenoid act when it shouldn't would also be bad. A good servo system working on bad feedback information would do that
     
  21. Wyvern

    Wyvern Rookie

    Jul 27, 2016
    9
    Other interesting patent reads are the clutch which is 6,918,478 and the F1 box which is well described in 8,041,486

    enjoy

    Steve
     

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