812 GTS: To ADAS or not to ADAS

I was told yes.

 

You can permanently turn off lane keep assist. Source: I turned it off on my 812SF

 

well the AEB (automatic emergency braking) is part of adaptive cruise control (ACC) so while using ACC it will have AEB, so you can disable AEB only by turning off ACC...lane keeping stuff can be permanently turned off

 

There is no definition of ADAS that requires "taking control" of the cars motion.

"Advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) are electronic systems in a vehicle that use advanced technologies to assist the driver." https://www.aptiv.com/en/insights/article/what-is-adas

"What are ADAS?
Advanced driver-assistance systems, are technological features that are designed to increase the safety of driving a vehicle. LogisFleet explains that when properly designed, these systems, referred to also as ADAS, use a human-machine interface to improve the driver's ability to react to dangers on the road." https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31880412/adas/

"Advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) are groups of electronic technologies that assist drivers in driving and parking functions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_driver-assistance_systems

 

For purposes of this discussion, ADAS implies the ability to take over control of the car, hence the disdain for such items and the complete reluctance of regulatory bodies worldwide to force this upon manufacturers and their customers. Although AEB apparently coming soon in some markets.

Any "ADAS" item that does not take control the vehicle is not relevant since it does not inject its control and directly intervene/interfere with the driving experience.

By the definitions put forth on the links above, brake lights are ADAS, antilock brakes are ADAS, TPMS are ADAS, and so on...I do not agree that such items are relevant to this discussion at all.

"Contrary links" below:

https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/what-is-adas.html
These lifesaving systems are key to ensuring the success of ADAS applications, incorporating the latest interface standards and running multiple vision-based algorithms to support real-time multimedia, vision co-processing, and sensor fusion subsystems.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-does-adas-stand-for
ADAS is an acronym for advanced driving assistance systems. Technologies that provide driver support, such as adaptive cruise control, or attempt to prevent collisions, such as automatic emergency braking, are included among the many ADAS types. These systems use cameras, radar, LiDAR, vehicle-to-X communication, GPS and mapping data, and more to automate driving and make travel safer.

https://www.aptiv.com/en/insights/article/what-is-adas
Advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) are electronic systems in a vehicle that use advanced technologies to assist the driver. They can include many active safety features, and often the terms “ADAS” and “active safety” are used interchangeably.

ADAS uses sensors in the vehicle such as radar and cameras to perceive the world around it, and then either provides information to the driver or takes automatic action based on what it perceives.

https://www.ti.com/applications/automotive/adas/overview.html
Design reliable, scalable advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) for a safer, more automated driving experience. Our interactive system block diagrams guide you through an extensive catalog of integrated circuits (ICs), reference designs and supporting content to begin designing ADAS functionality, from driver assistance to fully autonomous. Let’s get started.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/advanced-driver-assistance-systems
Advanced Driver Assistance Systems are intelligent systems that reside inside the vehicle and assist the main driver in a variety of ways. These systems may be used to provide vital information about traffic, closure and blockage of roads ahead, congestion levels, suggested routes to avoid congestion etc. These systems may also be used to judge the fatigue and distraction of the human driver and thus make precautionary alerts or to assess the driving performance and make suggestions regarding the same. These systems can take over the control from the human on assessing any threat, perform easy tasks (like cruise control) or difficult manoeuvres (like overtaking and parking). The greatest advantage of using the assistance systems is that they enable communication between different vehicles, vehicle infrastructure systems and transportation management centres. This enables exchange of information for better vision, localization, planning and decision making of the vehicles.

https://newsroom.intel.com/articles/fact-sheet-mobileye-advanced-driver-assistance-systems-adas/#gs.ana5hy
Mobileye-Powered ADAS Features

A single Mobileye-powered camera mounted on the windshield can support the majority of common ADAS functions available in cars today. Common ADAS features supported by Mobileye vision perception include:

• 
  Automatic Emergency Breaking (AEB): Identifies an imminent collision and applies the brakes without any driver intervention.
  Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC): Automatically adjusts the host vehicle speed from its preset value (as in standard cruise control) in case of a slower vehicle in its path and then takes it back to the original preset speed when safe to do so.
  Evasive Steering Support: Enhances a driver’s emergency steering when a collision is imminent.
  Forward Collision Warning (FCW): Alerts the driver that, under the current dynamics relative to the vehicle ahead, a collision is imminent.
  Highway Pilot/Highway Assist: Combining ACC and LC on highways allows the vehicle to take control of itself during highway driving.
  Intelligent High-Beam Control (IHBC): Controls the vehicle’s headlights on dark unlit roads, automatically switching them from lower beam to high beam and back according to whether there is oncoming traffic.
  Intelligent Speed Assist (ISA): Detects and classifies various traffic signs and warns the driver of speeding (in passive systems) or automatically adjusts the vehicle’s speed (in active systems).
  Lane Centering (LC): Automatically steers the vehicle to maintain a central path within the lane.
  Lane Departure Warning (LDW): Alerts the driver to an unindicated (and therefore presumably unintended) lane departure.
  Lane Keeping Assist (LKA): Automatically steers the vehicle to stay within lane boundaries.
  Traffic Jam Assist (TJA): A combination of both ACC and LC, TJA allows the vehicle to take control of itself under certain traffic jam conditions.

 

Here is a definition from the EU Commission, perhaps we can now agree that ADAS requires intelligence (computer/software systems):

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/sites/default/files/pdf/ersosynthesis2018-adas.pdf

Page 7:

3 ADAS - a definition

Safety professionals understand ADAS as vehicle-based intelligent safety systems which could improve road safety in terms of crash avoidance, crash severity mitigation and protection, and automatic post-crash notification of collision; or indeed integrated in-vehicle or infrastructure based systems which contribute to some or all of these crash phases. More generally, some driver support systems are intended to improve safety whereas others are convenience functions.

 

I have all the ADAS functions on a couple cars and always turn them off. The auto braking is downright dangerous at times. I would pay to not have it in a Ferrari if that answers your question.

 

Again, thank you so much for your inputs!
After reading all your comments, I have decided to keep the Surround View and Back Rader, and NOT to order the ACC1 (Front Radar)
I believe MIR3 (Elctrochoromatic mirror) is standard in North America (I live in Canada)
How about FCAM (Advance Front Driving Camera)? Most memebers have commented gainst the Lane Departure Assist
What are other advantages or disadvantages of FCAM?
Are there any other features in the full ADAS package that I am missing?

Thanks

 

No it doesn't.

Your statement was "There is no USA regulation regarding any ADAS items being mandatory." I just showed there was. You don't get to just change the terms of the discussion because they don't fit your narrative.

It's really not worth spending any more time on. cheers

 

A backup/rearview camera is mandatory, no disagreement there.

ADAS = Advanced driver-assistance systems

According to the link you provided:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_driver-assistance_systems

ADAS were first being used in the 1950s with the adoption of the anti-lock braking system.[4] Early ADAS include electronic stability control, anti-lock brakes, blind spot information systems, lane departure warning, adaptive cruise control, and traction control. These systems can be affected by mechanical alignment adjustments or damage from a collision. This has led many manufacturers to require automatic resets for these systems after a mechanical alignment is performed.

I think the point is, ADAS can be anything you want it to be. Based on that, you could of easily said ABS is ADAS, as well as stability control. Both are mandated by the NHTSA

ESC:
ABS:
(together in one standard, 126)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.126

Maybe you thought I was forgetting about ESC and ABS?

Maybe you didn't remember either?

I think maybe we can agree that no actual 'current' ADAS "intelligent" technology manufacturers are including (many as standard equipment) is mandated in the USA.

Hope that clears this up, apparently the word 'intelligent' would of made all the difference in my original posting. Or, perhaps to be specific, something like, "other than ABS, ESC and backup cameras...". Or, maybe even better, refer to any devices that can take control of the vehicle's motion other than ABS and ESC (maybe that would be the best way to categorize)

I will be sure to include that differentiation in any further discussion, thanks!

 

"To ADAS or not to ADAS"

... if you need to ask...

 

HELL NO to ADAS!

 

Why would you have cruise control on a Ferrari anyway? It's just one more thing that takes away from the driving experience. In your big 4x4 or GTS Cruiser on the highway which chew up thousands of km, then sure, its a good thing to relieve the foot-soreness and keep you under the speed limit on long trips - but a Ferrari?? I want to feel the small bursts of speed, I want to see the distance close between me and the car in front - knowing I have more braking power than 5 of your average Toyotas under my foot, I want to blip over the speed limit sometimes .

More and more interventions have infiltrated the driving experience and sure, you can turn some of them off, but this is one you actually have to turn on - making a decision to cut down on the excitement.

No thanks, save your money and buy a 2nd hand Corolla for the kids (you could with what this is worth on the 812 )

 

Agree 100%

 

Lol, you’re absolutely right!

 

Driving in a very large metropolitan area where other drivers are not as proficient as I perceive myself to be (and I believe my record supports), I have the full suite of safety tech on my 812 Superfast, and I am doing the same on the 812 GTS I have on order. Parking is very tight in most places I go, so I appreciate the parking assist; people are constantly jumping out on the road unexpectedly, so I appreciate the emergency braking; I do drive long distance and on long stretches I enjoy the adaptive cruise control. I do hate lane assist - this is one item I keep off as it seems to be way to sensitive.

As far as looks of the various sensors on the car (cameras, radar, etc), they seem to be only noticeable when someone points them out to me.

Any vehicle I drive I have the safety tech whether it be my Ferrari, Porsche Taycan and even a Jeep Wrangler. Its not a significant cost in relation to the overall cost of the vehicle, I do not have an issue with the appearance, and it only takes one stupid mistake on someone else part which the system protects agains to make it all the worth while.

 

My order finally went in without the giant front wart. I will post up the spec at some point.

 

Because, and I can't believe I'm the only one, I drive my Ferrari everywhere, including on long trips. That way, I still have my Ferrari when I get where I'm going. And because I'm in it all the time, I'm always ready to enjoy its spectacular performance and glorious sound when the opportunity arises.

Given that I drive on the highway a lot, having cruise control to ensure I don't slowly creep up to incarceration-worthy speeds is essential. And the fact is that having the car maintain its speed on long hauls makes for a more relaxed drive. And when it would take away from the drive, I simply don't use it.

I'm personally don't think the gaping off-center hole in the front grill is worth it for active cruise control, but basic CC is a must have. It's better to have it and not use it all the time, then to want it sometimes and never have it.

 

Can you only keep the AEB (automatic emergency braking) on for safety without using the ACC? How intrusive is the AEB? Does it have option to turn it off if you want?
Sorry for too many questions!

 

Maybe it’s just me but I drove my 812SF on an 11 hour drive between my two homes, mostly highway. No cruise control and no problem enjoying myself whatsoever. And to me the GTS is even more special and won’t be logging thousands of boring highway miles ever.

 

Gentlemen, this topic is very important, I’m also at a point where I must make up my mind about to ADAS or not to ADAS and I’m feeling confused after all the back and forth. If I care about safety primarily, not cruise control, is this a useful worthwhile system to order??

I don’t mind the appearance of the camera up front, and my main concern is blind spot alert and automatic braking when cruise control is not in operation, does the system do that? Can people who have it please provide feedback.

thank you

 

I believe it will provide for lane control assist and braking. The very things I turn off when driving.

 

The safety features work as advertised just as if you had them in a Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc etc. ACC is not needed to be on for emergency braking.

 

Just to clarify, while I do have ADAS on my 812 Superfast, and have ordered it for my 812 GTS. I also have an F8 Spider on order. I did not order it for the F8. For my purposes, my 812 is a GT and I use it regularly. My prior mid engine Ferraris and my F8 on order is a weekend car and as such do not typically highway drive it nor drive it extended distances. As a result I did not find it necessary to spec it for that car (although I did spec the front lifts).

 

might need to confirm with factory, but, I was told that, in the 812, AEB only is active when ACC is turned on, for instance, this page on Ferrari's website, in spanish, refers to this for the Portofino-M:

https://www.ferrari.com/es-DO/articles/portofino-m

También hay mejoras en términos de equipamiento. Los sistemas avanzados de ayuda a la conducción (ADAS) opcionales incluyen control de crucero adaptativo (ACC) con frenado de emergencia autónomo (AEB), advertencia de cambio involuntario de carril (LDW) con reconocimiento de señales de tráfico (TSR), detección de ángulos muertos (BSD) con alerta de tráfico cruzado trasero y cámara de visión envolvente (Surround View).

translated=>

There are also improvements in terms of equipment. Optional Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) include Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) with Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB), Lane Departure Warning (LDW) with Traffic Sign Recognition (TSR), Blind Spot (BSD) with Rear Cross Traffic Alert and Surround View Camera.

- - - -

Earlier article for GTC4Lusso refers to same:

https://www.ferrari.com/en-GM/magazine/articles/gtc4lusso-winter-driving

Adaptive cruise control is standard, so the car will run at your desired speed until it encounters something slower-moving, and adjusts its pace to match, including zero, as I discovered when following another car through an Autostrada toll-booth. In traffic jams it automatically edges forward if it stops for less than two seconds. Autonomous emergency braking is preceded by an audible warning.

- - - - -

And, from what I can tell, you cannot separately order AEB, it is only included when ACC1 is ordered

more here

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/how-invasive-is-adas-on-new-2020-812-superfast.607439/