348 ATE Calipers

Has anybody figured out alternative seals for the ATE brake calipers?

A few threads on it, but I cant seem to find a resolution and lots of Google searching etc brings a blank.

Much appreciated, as I'd prefer not to spend the money converting to Brembo!!

 

I've looked high and low for these and even bought sets in the vain hope they would work - all without success.

The only place I know of that claims to sell aftermarket ones is in the link below but I just couldn't bring myself to pay that much - seemed cheaper to buy some brembos where the seals are readily available

https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/ferrari/348/brakes/brake-calipers/11400/kit-to-overhaul-brake-caliper.

I did get in touch with the seller to check whether they are genuine ATE or aftermarket and he confirmed that they are aftermarket so if you dont mind "taking one for team team (brotherhood)" you could always buy just one set and see if the code numbers are readable and then check where they are from???!!!

As an aside I believe the rear 512TR share the same calipers.

 

You'd have to do your own due diligence to check but superperformance sell an ATE overhaul kit for a Testerrossa.

*** HOWEVER **** the 348 has 36mm and 40mm pistons whereas the Testerossa (I think) has 38mm and 40mm pistons so at best you'd only be able to replace half the seals and again very expensive way of doing it. Also, you cant guarantee that the seals will be the same between the 2 without trying one.

If anyone knows anyway of getting these manufactured that would be great - I also contacted ATE classic and they dont stock them either :-(

 

If the sizes are correct, you should be able to piece together a kit using these part numbers:

36mm dual piston - Centric 143.37013 (four seals)
40mm dual piston - Centric 143.37015 (four seals)

I haven't rebuilt a set of these calipers yet. I do rebuild calipers and have built up a cross-reference database for a lot of old Italian and German cars.

 

I saw a thread years back on ATE calipers apparently parts for rebuild can be found under Mercedes part numbers... or so I recall. May be worth some grepping.

 

You would think i t is as easy as that but I've had no success with the ones I have tried. I (and many others) would be delighted if you can find some suitable ones though.

As you can see from the pics below there is a channel in the piston that the inner of the seal fits into and then the outer edge of the seal goes over a lip on the actual caliper body itself (complete nightmare to fit on.

Even if you can find one that fits these 2 dimensions the other problem is that the depth of the bellow on the seal has to be quite deep otherwise it will pop off.
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Had a look at those parts and they appear to also cross reference to Porsche; checking sites in the uk for those they come up with brembo callipers; which Jeff has tried and they don’t fit,

If dinoparts offers a rebuild kit they millstone be out there; but I can’t bring myself to pay 140 for a set of four seals!!!

I’ve had an initial search for Mercedes but nothing other than they had ate callipers on some of their models.

 

Porsche used the same calipers, I believe I had found the Porsche kits a while back, but I'll need to look back for information later tonight.

 

Just for reference the code on the seals are:

The small piston is 36mm at its widest part and the dust seal has code 13.8102-3603.2

The large piston is 40mm at its widest part and the dust seal has code 13.8102-4005.2

 

The Porsche calipers for this time frame were Brembo and would cross reference to the late 348 and 355 units not the early 348 ATE.

 

Yeah, you're right. I looked back and I swapped over to the Brembos from a 355 and rebuilt those.

 

Actually me two, well half way. I have a rear set of 355's on the bench and just need to find a reasonable pair for the front. I hate to have to remove the originals but if the seals go this is the only reasonable alternative.

 

I might have a set of front Brembos from a 355 hiding in my garage somewhere. I swapped over the front to Porsche Big Reds with 550 rotors. I'll look tonight.

 

On my 348, I have replaced the rear Teves with Brembo calipers from a 355 - no issues, both have 24 mm thick rear discs. However, the front 355 calipers may not fit the 348 because, according to the info I found, the 355 front discs are 28 mm thick and the 348 ones are 24 mm thick so the calipers may not have the same "jaw" width. Because of this finding, I did not look for front Brembos from a 355 but just bought new 348 ones.

 

After reaching out to ATE I’ve had no response from them; which is really disappointing.

As Jeff has mentioned Dinoparts have a repair kit for the ATE callipers. I’ve just spoken to them to confirm.

Im just waiting for my friendly main dealer to get back to me, and whilst they are good I’m not holding my breath. If they draw a blank I’m going to order the kit from Dinoparts. Very expensive; but cheaper than swapping to brembos!

 

If you do get some check out the serial nos on them.

Ive been having another look and wonder if anything on this website is suitable...

https://classicalfa.com/search.php?search_query=caliper&section=product

 

New seal kit from Dino parts ordered and on its way.

Whist I wait I thought I’d look at getting the old ones out. And crap German engineering at play this time.

The s/s brackets for the pads are in the way of removing the seals; and you would have to take the allen bolt out to remove the bracket. That allen bolt has been there for 29 years; and even if I could get an allen key in them; very unlikely they will budge.

So some Bremel action was required to grind a bit of the clip away; and out come the old seals easy!!

Never straight forward is it?!

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Adrian it's well worth splitting the calipers into the 2 halves which then makes the allen bolt more accessible with a wratchet rather than just an allen key. Got all of mine out bar one which had to have a nut welded to it to assist.

The pads stick because dirt and corrosion get under the clips which force them upwards reducing the space and making the pads jam/heat up/wrecjk seals etc etc

 

Here's a (not very good) video that I made showing you why calipers squeak but the main lesson is that your pads should slide in and out easily.



And after fixing

 

ATE seal kit from Dino Parts fit, at leat the dust seals do; thats all I neded.

For what its worth part numbers are B4426 and B4424; thats all thats on the seal.

As Jeff says, corrosion and rubbish can build up between the calipers and the S/S pad slides. More rubbish design, so if the opportunity arises, take them out, if the allen head screw will budge clean it all up.

 

Looks like you got the parts needed for the ATE caliper. FWIW, I was having trouble getting 1/2 seals for my e24 BMW M6 ATE calipers. I found this place that specializes in calipers, they were super nice and had the seals I needed. They seem to have knowledge of older Fcar calipers.

https://www.pmbperformance.com/brake-calipers.html

 

Well I've been doing a bit of digging on those parts nos to see what I could come up with.

I managed to get a match on the B4426 here:

https://www.calipology.co.uk/vehicle/volvo-740-744-saloon-2-3-1984-to-1992-2785/

I bought a couple to test and they do indeed fit just fine.



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The second type of seal with code B4424 has been a bit more of a challenge.

I sent a query to BigRRed here in teh UK (who do the B4426 as well BTW) and they said:

So I bought a set of them and tried fitting them...

This 2nd seal does fit, HOWEVER, it doesnt seem to want to stay stuck down over the lip on the caliper body ie when you press it on after a few seconds it rides up but if you were to put a bit of glue/sealant etc on it I reckon it would stay on no problem. I'm going to report back to BIGRRED to see if they can source the B4424 as it must exist somewhere in teh hope that that will just be a push fit. Anyway, main thing is you can get a set of seals for a rasonable price

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I wonder if the piston that is used with the seal B4380 would work and replace piston and seal? Seems issues is not so much size but the groove for the NLA seal. Switch pistons?

 

I'm actually in talks with Bigrred and they may be able to get the correct B4424 but there's a 6 week delay. Hopefully that should solve the problem of lifting off. Just getting prices etc