you may look a little in the search function, there are some photos from both cars
With VIN# 40897 it obviously is not an 84. Perhaps it was first titled in 84. Will be interesting to see what it goes for.
??? the question ag512bbi asked has been to see photos from my 2 koenig. so why you now write here something from vin# 40897?
Hey Turbo-joe. Read all the posts. I am referring to the Auburn auction 512BBi. Sorry if i broke the family circle!
The 512BBi vin# 40897 at the Auburn auctions sold for $295,000 plus 10% commission. I don,t know if there were any tools or the extent of owners manuals.
Non orig paint, ridden hard, unmknown mechanical condition but a low odo reading, in the end the buyer paid over 320k I guess boxers are "collectable" again..
The Auburn BBi vin# 40897 was billed as the more desirable 84 model year. Now, Daniel Schmitt is selling BBi vin# 40898 as an 84, price $399,000. To be a bit sarcastic were these 2 one number off BBis in a Twilight Zone. Neither has a Momo wheel or the seat track covers. Obviously not 84's. The only thing I can think of is these cars were first titled in 84. I just sold a 94 512TR vin# 97545. I had a minor rubarb with a fellow FCA member at a Nationals who insisted my 512 was a 93 because the build date was late 93. At this point in time Ferrari was like all auto manufacturers, building the next model year in the previous.
According to the book "Ferrari Serial Numbers Manual" by Matthias Urban, the car lists as a perhaps late '82 early '83. And I'm going with '82 as the air tubes from the fuel distributor assemblies to the intake plenums have the exposed flat seams.
if that dino sale today on BAT is actually legit, then BB's need to be a helluva lot higher value.....
Saddens me to see a Fiat powered car gets more than the flag ship flat 12 at the time. A dino is a beautiful car, I want one but it seems I'm chasing them up a ladder.
Many years ago I went to look at a BB at Joe Nastasi's place in Brooklyn. It was offered at $105 but had been sloppily repainted leaving overspray on the rubber windshield gaskets. The car just didn't feel right to me, so I passed. But while I was there I completely fell for a beautiful black/black Dino 246 GTS and ended up buying that car later for $60. Yes, it was gorgeous and fun, but the 190 hp was a bit lacking. I ended up selling the car years later. I came close to buying a BB once or twice in the meantime, but never found the right one. Then in 2013 I found my BB, a '79 carbureted car in Blu Sera, and bought it for $115 while Dinos were then $300 - $450. It just blew my mind that the flat-12, mid-engined BB that was once almost 2x a Dino had languished at roughly the same price, while the Dino had increased 6-7 fold. The BB is much more car and a more thrilling driving experience, but yes, the Dino sure is pretty. I suppose the market has spoken, but I'll take a BB over a Dino all day.
Well the thing about that is that market never shuts up and it regularly changed its opinion. For true enthusiasts, it is mostly irrelevant but I’m sure that at some point the market will recognize the Boxer for what it is. Water always finds its own level. Even if it takes some time.
I don’t get the price disparity between the two either, it is not like a Dino has a rarity factor, it is all about demand. FWIW, a couple of months ago I was having a discussion with a Boxer owner, who was asking me about my Ford GT. I hinted around at a straight up trade, but no interest....so that backs up the reputation that a good Boxer can be a great ownership experience.
to have a BB for driving and servicing is much more expensive than a dino. but this nevertheless will not mean in my eyes that a dino is so much more worth. I wonder only and be proud to habe a BB
After not having driven either since the summer of 2018, I spent the first half of last week in Canada driving my 78 BB and the second half of the week driving my 80 LP400S Countach, which provided an interesting comparison. Despite having spent the price of my BB again in rebuilding the engine, carbs brakes, cooling system and suspension (the BB works flawlessly) and my 80 Countach never having had a restoration in 41 years, I was amazed that I found the Countach engine more flexible and the car generally more fun to drive. I did not expect that. The BB has more vintage feeling brakes, tires and steering geometry than the Countach (which I don't mind), but the main difference is the engine. The BB has 1.0 liter more displacement, but seems over carbureted; in slow traffic it can load up with unburnt fuel, which causes it to pick up revs unevenly when you add throttle, and big pushes on the pedal at moderate speeds can almost drown out the engine. The small V12 in the Countach runs and revs more cleanly, without acting like a car with big carbs, despite having six 45mm DCOEs. This makes things like creeping in heavy traffic or parking a bit easier to do smoothly, which is reasonably weird in a Countach. My friend who restored the BB and stores and takes of both assures me that all carbed BBs runs pretty much like that (he services about a half dozen of them), but the payoff is that when the road is open, the BB flies (which is true, I think at 2500 rpm and up my BB (albeit with a fresh engine and HC pistons) could put both the Countach and likely my 91 Euro Testarossa on the trailer - it has a monstrous amount of torque). I guess I now understand the idea behind the BBi and why its value is close to that of a carb 512BB. After having driven a few Dinos, I still don't understand the price premium for what is a slow (but pretty) car. I would like to try a 365BB and see what that engine is like in comparison to the 5.0 version (and a 4.0 Countach). Not my Rolls, but it was interesting to see the size difference. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good day John, Your comments about your carbed BB loading up during stop and go, etc to me means that something is not right with your car's carb setup, etc. I have been working on my BB's carbs for some time now and after collecting a ton of data (AFR, 4-gas, etc) on various setups (factory 365, 512, and others) I can certainly understand why some cars are not running as well as they could/should. These carbs are practically infinitely tunable and so one must truly understand these carbs in order to properly set them up. Adding to the complexity we have different fuel formulations both regionally and when the car/engine was designed that must also be considered. What I can tell you without a doubt is that the factory setup is less than perfect, at least on my car and/or location. On my car the factory setup runs OK and will certainly push you into the seat, but has various oddities (some of which you mentioned) are/were present. I have now abandoned the factory setup and my car runs significantly better, but I believe it can run even better. With that said your Countach's engine/setup may still be better than your BB, but I think you might find an improvement if your BB was setup differently. Cheers, Sam
I remember that car and test drove it at RPM VT. It was really nice. I ended up with a downdraft countach, which was an “experience” to drive but wasn’t exhilarating like some smaller cars (911s, Dinos, 308GT4, etc.). I think its because I like driving on back roads more than highway driving. I also had some of the carb tuning issues discussed by JohnMH with the countach, where it would bog at higher revs. It felt like it could either be tuned for low-end acceleration or high end speed but not both. I am thinking of getting a carb 512BB as I agree its a lot of car/history relative to the insane prices of other cars today (although its all relative as prices of everything have gone up so much…). I test drove one and it felt much smaller than it did a decade ago (probably because the modern everyday cars keep getting bigger). JohnMH - do you find the 512BB to drive comparably to the Countach on backroads? Is the 512BB primarily a highway/high speed car? They both now strike me as GT more than sports car as I get more seat time. Thank you
a BB is a great car for backroads, for highway TR serie is better. but in a BB the driver has to "work" more what you understand under "high speed car"? high speed for me starts at 180 km/h and the BB is great up to 240 km/h
Hi - I meant Autobahn or the US equivalent for cross country driving. I looked at your profile - I love cars like the Renault R5 Turbo! I have cars like an Alfa GTA clone I drive 70-80 MPH on interstates. It’s fine but the size of the other cars near me is a bit worrisome. The R5 is a great backroads car. The Countach wasn’t in my opinion. It sounds like you feel the 512BB is fun for back roads? It felt smaller with better all-around visibility than the Countach. I also found the engine more tractable.
Good day FFmaybe, Sadly, where I live the ability to allow the the 512BB to stretch its legs is very limited. We have a lot of great roads, but we have strict driving laws and aggressive enforcement and so unless one likes to visit a court room, one has to drive like a granny. With that said I drive my BB mostly within the City with most speeds in the 40-70 KM/h range. The BB and its engine is very tractable and has no issues tootling around at these sedate speeds. There is no doubt that the car really wants to go, but like I said it is very happy to be used as a daily driver... which I do from time to time (grocery store, hardware store, etc). Cheers, Sam
