Odd water pump seal question | FerrariChat

Odd water pump seal question

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by JohnMH, Sep 7, 2021.

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  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    Ok, I know about the two water pump seals, the "early" type which replaces the original 2 piece type (152051) and the slightly taller later type (183759).

    I am replacing the seal during this engine out, as I am replacing the bearings, oil seal, chain and tensioner behind the case cover (actually an easy job).

    Why does my late 1991 EU car, 91626, with F113B engine 20382, use the early type seal? The dealer in Modena looked up my serial number in their records and promptly sold me the later type seal. Has anyone else noticed this?

    Did Ferrari just install whatever parts were available? The casting dates stamped into all my engine castings are 1989, supposedly after the design change was made. Weird.

    I confess I am thoroughly enjoying the two hours I spend every evening on the car.
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,912
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    only 2 hours each day? weekend will come and you may have time 10 and more hours ;)
     
  3. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    I have this pesky day job, which cuts into my time to perform actual ‘work’ during the week. Weekends are another matter altogether.

    My engine is in a clean room at a local independent Ducati service shop run by a friend. The guys collecting their Ducatis stare at the Testarossa lump in awe….
     
  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,912
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    so the first ducati riders already think about putting this 12 cyl into a ducati frame? ;)
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,112
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #5 Steve Magnusson, Sep 8, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
    I think the Dealer just made a mistake or has a mistake in their documentation. The TR SPC shows the early water pump seal is used up to engine SN 20820 (not by year). Maybe your engine went thru some rework cycles at the factory when made, or was held in inventory for a while, so maybe is a relatively lowish engine SN for a 1991 car, but it should have the early WP seal per the SPC -- just a thought.
     
  6. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    WP seals are all over the map. Personally, I like the one piece seal.

    Those of us who walk on water say it isn’t needed, but for those of us who are mortal…..
    Be Sure To Hydeotest Before Engine Installation!
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  7. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    I thought the 2 piece seals were NLA, replaced by the early version single unit.

    I will certainly test the seal before the engine goes back in the car. While I wait for the seal to arrive, I can install Newman's differential case. It was easy to disassemble and swap the parts to the new case last night, but my new non-oem limited slip friction disks don't match up. Problems, but I am getting there, and getting a decent education along the way.

    Tonight I install the bearings and the races and check their preload in the transmission case before installing the ring gear. But for the fact that I tore the gasket behind the cover for the oil pump chain case and must wait for a new gasket (grrr) I could reunite the engine and the transmission on the weekend.
     
  8. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    So, one more TR water pump question for the experts - do you install the metal sleeve (spacer) which fits inside of the seal over the pump shaft (so that the spacer is flush with the top of the seal) before you fit the seal into the case, or do you install the spacer first into the case and push the seal over it when you tap the seal into the case?

    I did the latter today and managed to damage the seal. Grrr....

    Is there a trick to this?
     
  9. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,145
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Press the sleeve into the seal then install the seal with a socket or pipe and a hammer. I put sealant around the perimeter just incase, acts as a lube on install and a sealant once it dries. I've run the one piece newer seal in place of the two piece as long as you modify the impeller to allow the taller one piece to fit into the impeller. The compressed height is the critical dimension. You'll hear the crunch if you got it wrong :)
     
  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    Thanks. The base of the sleeve needs to fit inside the rubber seal inside the block, I would have thought that you need to install the sleeve into the case first, before trying to install the seal.

    This task was so easy last time I did it in 2009. Maybe my skills are declining.

    What rig is best for pressure testing it?
     
  11. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    Go down to post #59 as suggested above
     
  12. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,627
    Dubai / Bologna
    Many thanks. I may print the entire thread.
     

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