308 GTB: an underrated champion | FerrariChat
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308 GTB: an underrated champion

Discussion in '308/328' started by Albert-LP, Oct 3, 2021.

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  1. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #1 Albert-LP, Oct 3, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
    There is a fun fact about 308 GTB: it's considered a "standard" Ferrari, not so important. Despite the car raced for several years, despite the many victories this car achieved, despite being the Italian Rally Champion in 1982, despite being one of the best looking Ferrari ever and even despite being a world TV superstar in the Magnum. P.I. series for many years.

    Even more fun is that a car (stritcly) derived from the 308 GTB QV, the 288 GTO, now worths two or three M USD as it was "built for racing": but the 288 GTO never raced, while the 308 GTB QV raced and won many times.

    Many don't even know that the 308 GTB (the euro dry sump carbed one) was built for racing: the evidence is that engine is exactly the same of the two years older 308 GT4 but with added a dry sump, a mod that was done only to race in the future. Then the big oil crisis of the mid seventies erased that racing willingess (there was no money), so the car only raced privately with Michelotto and so on, but raced a lot and won too.

    Picture ©: Ferrari.com, featuring a very famous 308 GTB Gr.4 tuned by Michelotto.

    Ciao

    You can read more here:
    https://www.ferrari.com/it-SM/history/momenti/1982/inarrestabile-308-gtb/more?fbclid=IwAR1fIOgdpXdU3XR2DPOmPXshha7MjmSc7CAXa_qnYmIfhAAtdEs1K_12BAU
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  2. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #2 mike996, Oct 3, 2021
    Good info but the GTS was the Magnum car, not the GTB. Magnum PI was probably the reason Ferrari ended up making relatively few GTBs for the US market...nobody wanted one! ;)
     
  3. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #3 Albert-LP, Oct 3, 2021
    Yes of course, but it was 99% the same car
     
  4. RodC328gts

    RodC328gts Formula Junior

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    #4 RodC328gts, Oct 3, 2021
    For what it’s worth, the 308 and 328 are in top of my “best Ferrari I like” list. with 288GTO and F40.
     
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  5. 308gts79

    308gts79 Formula Junior

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    #5 308gts79, Oct 3, 2021
    Albert-PL,
    Love the title, thanks for reminding us of the 308 GTB history, I've 2 friends shopping for this model now, I'm very happy to taking care of them: 308 GTB in the background while 328 GTB just completed a 1,000 miles rally, flawlessly...
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  6. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #6 johnk..., Oct 3, 2021

    I did, and been happy with it for 36 yrs.
     
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  7. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    #7 TonyL, Oct 3, 2021
     
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  8. JuLiTrO

    JuLiTrO Formula Junior

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    #8 JuLiTrO, Oct 4, 2021
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  9. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #9 kcabpilot, Oct 8, 2021
    In all fairness the Michelotto's were modified a bit beyond just "tuning"
     
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  10. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #10 Albert-LP, Oct 8, 2021
    I'm sorry but that's due to my English: in Italian you say a car "preparata" by Michelotto. "Preparata" in English is "tuned". Yes, the car were modified by Michelotto according to the "Gruppo 4" rules, that allowed a lot of modifications. Exactly like Michelotto did later with the 288 GTO for the "Gruppo B" (who replaced the "Gruppo 4"): the 288 GTO Evoluzione was widely modded if compared with the production 288 GTO. The same happened with production 308 GTB and 308 GTB Gruppo 4.

    But the 288GTO Evoluzione never raced, while the 308 GTB Gruppo 4 run and won many times.

    Ciao
     
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  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #11 nerofer, Oct 8, 2021
    Well, strickly speaking...why would you "hold on to your carbs", as the "Michelottos" had Kugelfischer injection?

    Then...not wanting to displease my friend Alberto, but...I respectfully have my doubts about the 308 GTB having been created with race in mind.

    The story goes that the late Daniel Marin, from the french Importer Charles Pozzi, went to see Enzo Ferrari in Maranello to try to convince him that the 308 GTB had race potential, after Jean-Claude Andruet had tried one and said that it had the potential to make an interesting rally car. Still according to the story told by Daniel Marin, Enzo said to him: "Ferrari is now a member of the FIAT group, and the rally racing in the group is the privilege of Lancia; so I'm sorry, but I cannot authorize Pozzi to enter a Ferrari in Rally racing, this would be against group policy";
    Then, still according to Daniel Marin, Enzo smiled and said: "on the other hand, I don't think I have the authority to forbide you to do it, either"...

    Rgds
     
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  12. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #12 Albert-LP, Oct 8, 2021
    Fiat didn't want Ferrari racing in the rallies: they already had Fiat and Lancia to race in the Rally championship, we know that. But the Ferrari project team added the drysump to the 308 GTB engine to have the possibility to race with that car: and they did the right choice. 308 GTB (turbo) Gruppo 5 raced also at Daytona 1981 with Carlo Facetti and Martino Finotto. Gruppo 5 allowed a ton of modifications, so the car is only 308 derived. All private cars, like Michelotto, but happened.
     
  13. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #13 nerofer, Oct 8, 2021
    Let's not talk about the 308 GTB (turbo) Gruppo 5, Alberto...probably the only really ugly 308 in the world...
    Let's forget about it: it would be better if it never had happened...

    Rgds
     
  14. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #14 Albert-LP, Oct 8, 2021
    Bruno, I'm not sure about which of the two between the 308 FF Carma turbo and 288 GTO Evoluzione looked worse!

    May I prefer the Carma turbo?

    ;)

    ciao


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    PS the 288 GTO picture comes from Ferrari official site: I have to give them the credits
    L’Evoluzione della specie (ferrari.com)
     
  15. RodC328gts

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    #15 RodC328gts, Oct 8, 2021
     
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  16. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

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    #16 JC Andruet, Oct 9, 2021
    Hmmm ...

    Ferrari 308 Gr 4 : 50 victories

    Fiat 131 : 222 victories

    Lancia Stratos : 296 victories

    By the time the Group 4 and then the even rarer Group B 308's were introduced, rallying was on the cusp of taking a quantum leap forward. The Audi quattro won its first loose surface event in 1981, and a year later the Lancia Rallye 037 was introduced, and it soon became the car to beat on Tarmac, whilst the quattro proved to be equally dominant on the loose surface events. By 1983 the 308 was all but obsolete.
    No doubt the car could have been developed into a more competitive package, but against the likes of purpose built rally cars such as the 037 Rallye, it was always going to be an uphill struggle. And on the 1983 Tour de Corse the highest place 308 finished 18th some two and half hours behind the winning 037 Rallye.



    When the might of Lancia and Peugeot (and to a lesser degree Audi) decided to build purpose built 4 wheel drive rally cars, any chance the Ferrari would be competitive in world class rallying disappeared.
     
  17. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #17 Albert-LP, Oct 9, 2021
    Please forgive me, JC, but you missed the point. I didn't speak about Lancia nor Fiat: I spoke only about two Ferrari models. One that raced and won 50 times (308 GTB) and one that had to race (288 GTO) but never raced and so never won anything: both had to race in the same championship (Rallies top level, the Gruppo 4, then transformed into Gruppo B) with the same racing team (Michelotto).

    I told that is fun this: the 308 GTB is worth 20 times less than the 288 GTO, despite who raced and won was the first. I didn't tell anything about Fiat nor Lancia (who also had official big teams and not only a small private racing team like Michelotto)

    ciao
     
  18. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

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    #18 jtremlett, Oct 9, 2021
    Alberto, I'm guessing you are not being entirely serious? The value of the 288 GTO is down to rarity, being the top model of its time and also part of chain that leads through F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari and beyond.

    The 308s that actually raced in period have their own values too.

    But I don't think the race history of something that looks a bit like a standard road version (but isn't) has or is likely to have, any great impact on the value of the standard car.
     
  19. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #19 kcabpilot, Oct 9, 2021
    If the 308 cost as much as a 288 then I wouldn't have one d;-(
     
  20. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

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    #20 308 milano, Oct 9, 2021
    308 GTB Quattrovalovle raced ?
    Post #16 suggest’s that “by 1983 the 308 was all but obsolete” in competition finishing 18th. Guessing this was carbureted/dry sump?
     
  21. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #21 kcabpilot, Oct 9, 2021
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  22. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

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    #22 308 milano, Oct 9, 2021
  23. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #23 Albert-LP, Oct 10, 2021
    288 GTO value is not due to rarity or the car I'm driving here below (GTB turbo, 308 units made, 44 only with ABS like my one) would worth a Million USD. It's the "O" that stands for "omologato" (homologated for racing) that adds an incredible value to the model.

    I'm not telling that the GTO doesn't deserve its value: I'm only telling that the 308 (the drysump fitted cars) has itself a racing heritage that the 288 GTO actually haven't. And number produced (more or less 1730) is not much diffent from F40 production numbers.

    I only wanted to point out how many doesn't give the 308 GTB drysump (both fiber and steel body) the importance that in my opinion it had in Ferrari history.

    No more, no less.

    Ciao

    PS
    Greetings from the roads around Modena: this road, 30 km later, passes aside the historical Ferrari gate, where I'm driving to.
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  24. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

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    #24 JC Andruet, Oct 10, 2021
    I think you may be overstating the importance of the dry sump system in the 308 A-LP.
    Let’s not forget that every aircooled Porsche 911 was equipped with a dry sump lubrication system as standard. And I’d respectfully suggest that numerous iterations of the 911 won races in just about every motorsport discipline they were entered in ...
     

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