123 ignition on Classic V8? | FerrariChat

123 ignition on Classic V8?

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by FastFreddie, Oct 8, 2021.

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  1. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
    406
    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    I am thinking about upgrading the ignition system on my Qp-1. 123 ignition has a ”plug and play” solution. Did anyone try it?
     
  2. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Someone discussed it here recently. SEARCH is your friend.
     
  3. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  4. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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  5. lbird

    lbird Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2012
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    I have a Thor ignition on my Mexico 4.2. Excellent solution, the engine runs like a charm and very good right from a cold start....

    CU lbird
     
  6. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    My car in an early quattroporte with a Magneti Marelli distributor. Later QP's and as far as I know all other classic V8 cars have Bosch. This makes it a bit more tricky. I have ordered a custom built 123 ignition distributor to fit to my car.
    Now they ask me for "please send data for rpm advance curve". Can anyone help? Where do I find this information? I have the original spare parts manual but that is no help. Any ideas?
     
  7. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I finally found this website again. http://quattroporte.online.fr/usefull.htm

    I thought it might have what you're looking for but I don't think so.
    Still, it's full of neat info on QPs and other Maseratis.
     
  8. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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    Pardon the off topic question on your thread Fredric,..

    Ivan,

    How do you feel about the quality and performance of the Petronix on the 3500/6 engine?
     
  9. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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    I believe there is a chart in the factory service manual that may help.
     
  10. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    Yes, I have seen that one, but it is for the Bosch distributor. Is it reasonable to assume that the advance curve for the Magneti Marelli distributor is the same? There is no material from Maserati what I have seen on the early QP. The workshop manual as well as the part manual is for the series II of QP-1.
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    You have a 4.2 liter V8 in your Qp1 so why not look in one of the other cars which used that motor like an early Indy or Mexico?
     
  12. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  13. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
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    Yes, here is the Qp manual with below information regading the advance curve. My car is a -65 QP with a Magneti Marelli distributor. As far as I know all others have a Bosch distributor. The question is if the advance curve is affected by the brand of distributor or if it is the same regardless?

    https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-4mOuIwIID0NbzqJiwMEMyb09gZ8R9gHingApu7BHd3XncZ9DOmque53hBoN1KyyDyGonbk3YJo-H5hddFizV3w/messages/@.id==AOQVfsNf0X-qYbw9zAtaQL9VLRA/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appid=YMailNorrin&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2
     
  14. redfred84

    redfred84 Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    585
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Some years ago, a fellow F-Chatter, 3500 GT owner was hesitant to send his distributor to Pertronix from Europe. Since I live in California, where Pertronix is located, and had dealt with them before on other applications, I served as the initial test & set up. I also had a spare distributor!
    It's been running trouble free for years now. In fact, the car still has the original spark plugs installed from my initial fire up & dial in, which was after a 30 year slumber. I used color tester to dial the freshly rebuilt carbs (from Pierce), and have been driving the car ever since.
     
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  15. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    The Pertronix Ignitor I recently installed on a Ghibli only replaced the dual points. The advance curve is still dictated by the original distributor.

    I am not familiar with the 123 ignition but it sounds like you are replacing the complete distributor. Since Maserati later used a Bosch distributor on the same 4.2 liter engine you have then logic dictates that the Bosch advance curve will work just fine on your engine and that is what the folks at 123 should use.

    Ivan
     
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  16. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    FYI That link doesn't work.

     
  17. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    Let's try again, here is the workshop manual instruction. I agree with thecarnut, It makes sense that the advance curve should be the same regardless of distributor brand.
    The reason it is a bit tricky is that my Magneti Marelli distributor is broken beyond repair. A new one is almost impossible to find, and those I did find was 55 year old NOS at completely ridiculous prices. Then I prefer a modern solution. BUT the drive is different from the "plug and play" versions they have for V8's with Bosch distributors. So I had to send my old distributor for them to take the drive sprocket and mount it on a new 123 distributor. Wish me luck
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  18. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Good luck and I hope that's enough for them.
     
  19. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    You should provide them a copy of the actual curve as they will need to know when advance starts, the rate it increases, and when it stops (goes flat).

    Ivan

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  20. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The really neat advantage of this solution over the Pertronix is that he can control/alter the advance curve electronically so no more centrifugal weights and cams. Everything that wears out on the classic Marelli. I wonder if Pertronix will ever get there?
     
  21. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
    406
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    Thanks for the diagram. I know many who are tuning Classic Alfas are using 123 ignition. That is where I got the idea.
    https://123ignition.com/
     
  22. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
    406
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    Fredric Gustafsson
    FINALLY my workshop got around to mount the custom built 123 ignition distributor. I was a bit nervous if it should work. I sent the original Magneti Marelli distributor to them to take the drive sprocket and make the new electronic distributor using the old sprocket. It worked perfectly! With a new fully tunable electronic distributor, new coil and a "big fat spark booster" the car runs better than ever. Incredibly it starts hot or cold in one sec! You touch the key and the car starts. It was not cheap. If you have a 105 series Alfa, the distributor is around 500E. For this special build with all the things included I paid around 2000 Euros. Worth every single cent!
     

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