Daytona Fastener Finish?

Dear Howard, I hope you won't mind me using your above post to illustrate my concerns with oversimplified online (forum) comments/statements.
I assume like all other Daytonas or most other cars of similar vintage, 12971 has thousands upon thousands of nuts (+ other small hardware) of various sizes and types in every imaginable area of the entire car and probably not ALL are “silver cad” (but not made clear in your post), there's a reasonably good possibility that when a newly minted (& inexperienced ?) concours judge, owner or restorer is doing (online) research in the future, he or she might get a wrong impression and think ALL nuts in a '69 Daytona are supposed to have "silver cad" plating...

 

With yellow nyloc insert. The first photo is from a 365 2+2 and the second from my Daytona fan mount. Third one I posted for fun, it is of the lead hammer that came with my car!

There is a video I posted somewhere which showed the install at the Ferrari factory of the Daytona suspension, brakes etc. in colour if anyone can find it?
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Timo , not sure but it was rear suspension.
A photo from Ken explaining that he could not see ANY yellow/gold cad/zinc anywhere on my car.
He thinks gold started around 308GT4

 

However you have much more specific Daytona experience and I for one am very thankful for your contributions to F/chat and my own project

 

Thanks for your kind words Howard.

While my research of unrestored examples or others with (presumably) original finish on their components or parts is far from conclusive, it has lead me to believe there are/were quite a bit of yellow/gold cad/zinc plated hardware in them originally, but majority (yet not all) nuts were likely either silver or black.

OTOH, having seen both in-person and pictures of countless "restored" Daytonas of various production years with yellow/gold re-plated brake calipers, my research, again, however limited it may be, of examples presumably wearing their OEM calipers/finishes, has never revealed such, but as per Gary’s statement and clarification regarding specifically ’69 production year examples, who am I to question and as I said, happy to learn something new and if anything, just proves I still have lot more to learn about these cars.

I probably just need to quit waisting owners and restorers time by volunteering to judge their accomplishments, stick to doing things my way and should my clients wish to have their cars judged, let the chips fall whichever way they may.

 

I have been following this thread somewhat amusingly. It it finally getting to the correct conclusion. There is very little consistency in Daytona hardware finishes. They are all over the map. There is a general direction in finishes as the cars move from early to late production, but nobody can make definitive statements regarding CORRECT finishes for Daytona's as a group. Best to do your own research and carefully look at original photos and inspect known cars in the chassis number range close to what you are working on.

 

Brake caliper from a 1969 plex nose car here at Bobileff Motorcar Company.
Gary Bobileff
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Regarding the variation in finishes (and just for fun), the car Rory has been working has a set of gray(!) painted Konis; that appear to be original to the car??

 

Found the film plus one more which might be useful.

One of the films shows the Daytona suspension being fitted in 1971 at the factory, please take a look. Looks like not much yellow on the callipers.




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I use almost that exact same screen shot as a reference...

To my eyes the caliper does look like it is likely gold-CAD; just not applied over a smooth surface (so not shiny in the way that one often sees). I wish there were a shot of the engine compartment, as I would really have liked to see the finish on the brake booster.

Gary's pic makes it look more like a pale tan paint, but it still could be gold-CAD.

The calipers on my car needed rebuilding, and I went with the gold, but to keep the darn things from rusting so fast, and to get closer to the screen-shot finish, I had clear satin paint applied over it. Beats me if it is right, but that is what seemed reasonable to me.

A really interesting thing about that screen shot, is that the A-arms are clearly much less "gold" than the caliper; to my eyes, silver-CAD seems way more likely. This is really contrary to what I've generally seen applied to fully-restored cars, and to many cars that claim that their suspensions have "never been touched".

Someday I'll need to redo my suspension, and I'm not sure what I will opt for...

 

Hi Grant,

I have many screen shots from that video as well...

Agree about the gold/yellow brake booster. Just not sure about the exact disposition of the finish. In the video, it looks like it is shiny where the label peeled-off, but matte everywhere else. Hard to know if the shine is from adhesive (and the real finish is matte), or from lack of oxidation/dirt (and the real finish is shiny). Would have been nice if factory video had some shots of a truly fresh car.

A funny thing about the video is that the odometer shows almost no miles, but the heel-pad is completely worn through. I dare say that the car is not as "fresh" as one might assume; and kudos to the car's owner, as they clearly drove the car...

-- Alex

 

ATE brakes were used on many BMW’s so there are plenty if references. yellow cad according to a large ATE brake restoration shop.

 

Hi Alex, I think the heal pad is just wet hte video is not the best quality, the gear knob looks like new as do the window switches which usually get gruby, carbs look new as well, ties up with a 5750 mile car.

 

I believe those A-arms were plated with nickel in '71 and the support brackets that they are attached to are coated in clear cadmium. Things changed sometime around 1972 when I think yellow cadmium started being used on the A-arms.

 

I suspect you are right about the date
but I dont think nickle was used on suspension parts -- it is more a finish method.
ie vintage radiators for example.
and it will eventually peel like old chrome does which is not seen on old suspension arms

 

SN 14389 had nickel on the A-arms when I took it apart. I am the second owner and it had not been gone through before.... as far as I know.

 

Hi Grant,

Hmmm... that is an interesting speculation that I'd not previously considered. Certainly seems plausible.

I'm not sure I put much weight in the appearance of the switches and carbs; like you said, the video-quality is pretty iffy.

I am saddened by the possibility that the car was not as heavily driven as I had been presuming...

Note that this is a Euro, so that is 5750 km.

-- Alex

 

Hmmm... That would be nice.

My car is mid-72, and I if I can go with the gold/yellow, I imagine I will have fewer debates with random folks...

At some point, all my suspension stuff was over-sprayed with black, and unfortunately, with other parts that I have stripped of the paint, the stripper did not leave anything of the original finish (at least that I have been able to notice). Will say, however, that I'm glad they did that over-spray, as parts have been remarkably well preserved under the paint...

 

It has USA spec. touches, such as MPH speedo and hex wheel spinners, driven be a French man, on Alberta plates TB 87-22 plates are from 1972?
Demonstrator maybe? I would think it’s a 71 plexi car. Pop up lights came in in 1972.
Any info on this car Marcel please?

 

I am totally wrong at least with my car. Clearly nickel and you can see it peeling which zinc or cad does not
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If you re-plate them in nickel, make sure your plater understands and mitigates hydrogen embrittlement.

 

Depending on materials, this ^^ is also advisable with other "sacrificial platings".
If/when in doubt, consult your metallurgist and/or plater.

 

Hi Grant,

You know, I have watched that video a lot, and have never noticed that the speedo was in miles.

Seems I must recant, because I would concur that it is extremely hard to believe that the car has over 100k miles on it...

-- Alex