In all fairness, alot of us would want a discount in these cases (wouldn't say ruined), because one cannot verify the quality of the work. I bought a Ford GT recently from a DIY owner. Guy had a rediculous set of tools, 4 post lift, and the guy doing my PPI grilled him hard on what he did and how he did it. And I STILL required a discount before buying it.
My honest opinion is that the 3x8 chassis needs to have a floor value of 150k.. that's for the rough 20'.. 200k for good DD & 250k for pristine examples. If values don't climb the 308's will be regulated to the dust bin of history. Parts and availability are getting scarce. Costs of working on these classics are not going to come down and the availability of knowledgeable people on them is also dwindling. Low values just compound this making worse. I get that many want an affordable classic Ferrari, I just don't see how these metrics cross. We've got engine builds booked out for the next couple yrs, There are many owners investing 6 figures into them. Restored, sorted pristine examples will not be available for under 100k. Values must climb, otherwise there's no financial impetuous for the supply chain to keep them around.
Yea I don't think anyone can predict the future but supply is only half the equation, the other half is demand and if you look at current owners of classic cars or people desiring classic cars it's a pretty narrow demographic and every year we all get older. The cars get rarer and the parts get scarcer but so do the number of individuals who want the things. My other hobby is vintage aircraft and talk about a group of old graybeards, there's no young blood coming along to pick up the banner behind us. Plus I don't really get the whole "financial impetuous" thing, is that really why we're doing this? But I understand what you're saying.
I'm speaking mearly in terms of keeping these vehicles on the road and going. If the values stay low then when the existing parts supply is gone... That's it, nobody is going to mfg replacement parts for a vehicle with little value. The costs associated with keeping new parts on hand, mfg etc will not be worth the effort. Shop rates for exotics aren't going down so there's that issue to contend with as well. It'll be interesting to see what the future brings. From a purely business driven view from where I sit, if values stay low... The 308 is going to be a real pita to keep running, if they climb then it's simply going to be more expensive. No real win there for many. Catch 22 I suppose.
How does anyone explain the Porsche collector market.. that's nuts. Even classic Mercedes and BMW.. at the current trend those German mass produced drivers will exceed Ferrari of the same vintage. Bizarre..
It seems that when Ferrari came out with the Dino and then the 308 it was imagined that they were competing with Porsche but fact is there were over 100,000 first gen 911's built, Over the 7 generations of the 911 more than half a million were stamped out of Stuttgart and Zuffenhausen. So it's a much bigger market. When you say nobody is going to make parts for our old Ferraris well, that's really already the case for most of the stuff. It's interesting to ponder the future market for more modern cars that rely so much on electronic modules that are no longer produced and can't be fabricated by anyone with even the most awesome machine shop you could think of. If you talk with young people today many of them are just not interested in ownership of an automobile at all, period. But we've got ours, we should just enjoy them and stop worrying.
Its a matter of comfort level and conundrum as well. There are examples on both sides of the fence. I've seen shoddy overpriced work done by reputable shops and I have also seen rube goldberg repairs by owners or traces of poor attention to detail and workmanship. If one can't size up the person one is dealing with or can not follow the breadcrumb trail of parts replaced and service performed, then they are at a disadvantage from the git. But for me, the one thing I will never do is buy a car sight unseen - no matter who is representing it. One of my cars is a Benz W124 500e. When I bought it they were changing hands at 1/3 the value of a 308. I found an example 1300 miles away in Savannah, GA and got a PPI from someone who had gotten to the car before me. They had decided to pass for reasons I still don't understand but they shared the PPI with me. I also spoke with the mechanic at the shop that had maintained it for years, and saw all the receipts. None of this meant much to me other than it validated buying a plane ticket. I flew down, checked it out myself and drove it home. Even after all that, I found little surprises the owner, the PPI, and the mechanic either neglected to focus on or overlooked. This is bound to happen with any sale so you have to be careful no matter how you approach the hunt.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about the values. Your logic is valid but the situation is not as dire IMO. Anyone who has watched the Aston Martin DB series go from junkyard fodder to BaT Royalty or who is familiar with what has happened to Alfa GTVs, understands its just a matter of time and patience. There may be doom and gloom long long into the future but not within our lifetimes. Certainly if you had your money in Model T and Model A Fords, the zenith has passed. Same for Brass era cars, Vintage Packards, etc. But there is an undercurrent of interest in the 308 that far exceeds the supply. And with the amount of choices in the market as relates to service parts, it is cheaper to obtain parts for your 308 today than it was 30 years ago. Of course there are quality issues to navigate around but the internet, forums, more people with more experience all provide a way to neutralize the risks quite effectively.
I don't know about 30yrs ago, but in the last 20yrs parts costs have gone up. Demand fluctuates, that's normal. The shift over the last decade went from std service parts to more obscure and bigger bits also a given due to age. 308's are labor intensive from a shop view point, esp compared to the new stuff. What's avg shop rate $150/hr? Techs or mechanics that haven't cut their teeth on these classics are facing a problem, eating time and money. There's no book time on these older cars, so you need a shop that knows them well and is willing to eat a little bit of the cost. It's rare that anything with these older cars ever goes smoothly, that's time and that's money. There's only so many parts suppliers, we know them all, we're even one and we know the original sources in Italy as well, but every year there's less and less available and costs creep up. I've watched it and felt with it. It's one of the reasons we're constantly trying to find ways to mfg parts, used to be fairly cost effective. The problem is mfg costs have skyrocketed and 308's are but a mere drop in an ocean of other marks for qty mfg. Volume is non-existent. That requires increased value to offset or a customer willing to spend more on parts then the car is worth.
Seems to me that steering racks, water pumps, belts, gaskets; things like that are cheaper. There weren't many sources back then other than a dealer. It all seems cheaper now. But yes labor is expensive and certain OEM items ARE more expensive. Examples are konis and radiators.
Prices have been a bit insane, but it is what it is. The carbureted market is even crazier with some of the prices on cars.com or autotrader.com
Wow that’s expensive. The 308 Fuel injection parts are Mercedes I bought injectors for $25/ea. Injector bushings are available from a seller here on FC from the Netherlands. Yes the Ferrari branded ones are expensive. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
