328 Euro '86 starts then seems to drop a bank | FerrariChat

328 Euro '86 starts then seems to drop a bank

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ducowti, Nov 10, 2021.

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  1. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
    1,558
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    David
    Years back one of the ignition modules dropped and was replaced with WAI Electric XM631. No issues since. Today just started up normally/healthy, then ran rough just like when the front bank dropped years ago. Stalled out while idling, and then took a few minutes of difficulty starting. Only kept her running w.throttle applied.

    Started her up 10min later, started ok, then dropped again. I would think were the module the problem it wouldn't have started again.

    Thanks for thoughts/direction.
     
  2. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2011
    11,120
    Under a bonnet
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    Panzer
    Before condemning the module, check the wiring. Aged cars sometimes lose insulation on wires and things start arcing. Check at curves and near bolts/metal objects that are grounded.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    First, check if you are losing a bank of ignition, or not, during the bad running with a spark tester.

    If the ignition is not the trouble and a US version, check if the frequency valve buzzes/vibrates when running OK, and doesn't buzz/vibrate during the bad running (if so = something probably not right with the Protection Relay operation).
     
  4. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    2,389
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    Also a good idea to check the bank temperature. If you don't have a laser gun, just try to hold your hand above the exhaust manifolds (just to be clear and avoid any confusion due to my so-so English: do not touch the manifold!). If the bank is running you can feel the heat. By contrast if the manifolds are dead cold you know there is something wrong. If one bank works and not the other one, chances are you are facing an ignition issue. Keeping a spare ignition module would be a good idea.

    As far as injection is concerned, If the injectors o-rings are not dry, it's easy to remove the injectors, place them in small jar, lift the k-jet disc and validate that all cylinders do receive an equal amount of fuel (my k-jet is 6-cyl updraught whereas your is 8-cyl downdraught, but you get the idea).

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  5. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    To follow up, since I finally had the right lighting and time conditions, the problem was apparently cyl 4 plug wire. She started fine, idled ok for the 7-8 min while I monitored bank temps w.infrared meter (front bank slightly higher than rear, presumably bc the former has less venting vs rear bank). Began molesting the plug wires, got a rude shock from cyl 4 plug wire and she coughed a moment, then stabilized and has run great since. Subsequent touching did not result in shock, so either I touched it w.two hands (don't recall) or maybe I secured a compromised connection below the plug cap.
     
    greg328 likes this.
  6. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    Follow up to the above follow up - it's not the plug/wire, it's some component or integrity (wire, plug, connection, etc) of one of the coils. Sputtered a bit today, then dropped a bank. Pushed all the connectors, wires, etc feeding the coils and other bits (sorry, don't know what the things in the neighborhood are), and that got the dropped bank back in. Will need to unplug and inspect/address everything there, will update as able.
     
  7. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    Thinking a spare coil would be prudent - part #s for the coil(s?) seem to be 124273 and 143413, or at least 124273 x 2 (one for each bank). Anyone know if each of those PNs is required for respective banks, or do (2) 124273 serve each bank?

    Thx
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
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    The difference between 124273 and 143413 is:

    124273 is the coil and the power module. The coil has 1/4" spade connectors. Each bank uses its own 124273. This is used on 328 and early TR.

    143413 is the coil and the power module. The coil has a 4 pin molded plastic connector. Each bank uses its own 143413. AFAIK, this is only used on later TR.

    You would buy whichever one matches what you have now. You can see pictures of each at https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk (just search there using each part number). You can also do a search here using those part numbers and probably get some threads/information about how to source the coil and the power module separately, but less expensively, from non-F suppliers.
     
  9. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    Thanks Steve. I emailed Ricambi, Brian replied the 124273 is for non-US w.out cats, and 143413 US w.cats. Will also search the boards.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Any reason that you can't just look at the coil connections on your car to determine which type you have? (The online 328 F SPC documentation doesn't match Brian's statement so please report back as I'd like to know for my notes. I did save a photo of a 328 coil assembly that another FChatter had posted showing the spade connectors ala 124273, but I didn't put the version in the file name.)
     
  11. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    David
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
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    Steve Magnusson
    #12 Steve Magnusson, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    Those look like the 124273 coil with the spade connectors to me -- that look like this (if you remove the connectors with the yellow and red wires for the coil primary winding from the bottom):
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    The 143413 coil looks like this where the yellow and red wires for the coil primary winding are all in a single 4-pin connector:

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    (Your first photo is the wiring/connector to the power module -- that is the same on both 124273 and 143413.)
     
  13. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    Very good, and thanks Steve. Glad I've ordered the correct part. All Ferrari had it for just under $400.
     

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