Oh Boy - Gummed up brake fluid clogging stuff everywhere... (360)

No worries, I have a 2,500 sq-ft "attic" where all the old parts go into storage, only to be touched by the person who has to go through it when I'm no longer around! I don't envy that job, as I am pretty good at labeling, but not super-perfect.

Can you please share what you used to clean this stuff out? Take a look at my next post with the photos, this stuff is no longer "gel", it's become some type of hard crystalline sugar-type substance that has contaminated every part of the system (every part I've taken off so far - see next post).

Thanks,

-Wayne

 

Okay, here's the big post. YIKES - this problem is as bad as I feared. The "gel" has crystalized and contaminated every corner of the brake system. It's in the reservoir, in the master cylinder, in the calipers, in the lines, everywhere. Bad news. Every component will have to come out and be cleaned. I'm not sure what to do about the ABS valve block - those are almost definitely contaminated with crap.

So, this stuff is not really gel - it's hard and solidified, like plaque on your teeth. I have a video I uploaded here to show the consistency and how hard it is:



Based upon what I've found here, I don't think that I can recommend to anyone to just "flush and go" - it seems as if a complete teardown and careful flush of the entire system is necessary to remove all of this crap.

Photos...

-Wayne
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Normally, I would agree, but this seems to be a very common theme with the 360, which leads one to believe that there was an issue either with the brake fluid or the plastic in the reservoir.

I did check the records for this car, and the brake fluid was changed many times over the past 20 years (at least four times). The last time it was replaced was at the dealer in 2014, about seven years ago. I know that Ferrari recommends that the fluid be changed at least once a year, which I believe is the only main stream manufacturer to recommend that. Curious...

-Wayne

 

Brembo caliper seal part numbers, in case anyone needs them in the future:

Dust seal: 20.4872.45 (38mm) and 20.4872.47 (42mm)
Caliper seal kit: 105.7957.57 (38mm) and 105.5955.59 (42mm)

One caliper down and three to go...

-Wayne

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Thanks for the insight. Once I have the rest of the system apart, I will make some tests on the leftover bits that I dug out of there. So far, everything cleared out of the right front caliper, so I'm optimistic about the other ones (although all four were apparently clogged on the outside).

My chief concern is still the ABS block. I bought a used one for a BOSCH 5.3 system on eBay for $20 that I will open up and take a look at. I'm not sure how this particular unit looks on the inside - someone on this forum somewhere said that Ferrari had some cover fix for the early valve blocks that required them to open the things up and reassemble them. So, if that's possible, I will do that. Buying a used one is a crapshoot too, with this being a known 360 problem. Buying a new one from Ferrari is $6K (also not a good option). It would appear that the valve blocks for all of the BOSCH 5.3 ABS systems are very similar if not the same (someone on this forum also made that statement), so buying a cheaper new one for an Audi A4 or something similar may work well.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue working on the calipers, one at a time...

-Wayne

 

Okay, I'm still working on this. Now I'm on to the ABS module. The entire system has been gummed up with this crap, so I'm assuming that it's also in the ABS system. Bad news - the ABS block doesn't seem to be available any more. I have two options:

1- Take the unit out and flush it very well. I can use some magnets to activate the valves manually and just try to flush it out with some brake fluid.

2- Buy a different, new, BOSCH 5.3 ABS control block from another car and swap it in. Something like this is very similar, and also has "050" marked on the block, which makes me think/wonder that it's the same block. I've read that all the blocks are the same except for the writing / markings on the inlets/outlets, but I'm not 100% sure.

This one is nearly identical: https://www.ebay.com/itm/99-02-Audi-A4-A6-VW-Passat-Anti-Lock-Brake-ABS-Pump-Control-Module-0273004358-/234225420871?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l44720.c10&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Thoughts?

-Wayne

 

No thoughts? Attached are some photos of the current Ferrari ABS module I took out of the car yesterday. Part number 168828. No longer available. My Ferrari dealer said he checked inventory worldwide.

You can see the crap accumulating in the the holes where the lines went into the unit. Grrr. I can flush the whole unit with fresh fluid using a fish tank pump while manually operating the valves with a powerful magnet (removed from an old hard drive), but I'll never be assured that it will be clean on the inside. Same deal for the brake lines too, but that's a different story for a different day.

Options:

1- Clean out the existing unit

2- Buy a used unit on eBay

3- Buy a new Audi unit on eBay and swap out the ABS 5.3 valve block.

There are a few Audi units available in Europe for relatively cheap ($250 or so). I think I'm going to buy one of those and bring it over here and compare it bit-by-bit to the existing Ferrari unit. Again, I've read that the ABS 5.3 blocks are all the same except for the writing / printing on the back of the block, but I have not been able to find anyone who can confirm that. They certainly look exactly the same. The part number on the motors are the same. In this case, I'm not sure what would be different - springs in the valves? That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

-Wayne


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And here is the Audi part that I found. I believe that the ABS units are marked with a version number of the block inside, this one (and the Ferrari one) are both 050, and have all of the holes and press pins in the same exact place.

For future reference, I believe that 8E0614111B and 8E0614111E seem very similar to the Ferrari unit. The unit shown here is listed as "8E0614111AP 8E0614111AR Audi A6 C5 Neu Orig ABS Hydraulikblock Steuergerät (001)"

-Wayne
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I ordered one of those similar looking ones on eBay - I will take it apart and compare it closely to the Ferrari one when it gets here and post photos. In the meantime, I bought a few cheap aquarium pumps on Amazon, and I'm going to use them to cycle through the fluid.

-Wayne
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That's a good tip. I checked out those threads. Seems like they are going the same route that I am looking at, although due to a different reason (the aluminum valve block apparently has a check valve that starts leaking after many years of aggressive driving).

So, I bought an aquarium pump and hooked it up to the block to flow fluid through the pump. The concept works - there's white crap coming out of the block. But I now need to improve my design. I need to add a more powerful pump, and also add a filter. I've got one ordered - it will be here in a day or two. In the meantime, here are some photos of my setup.

-Wayne
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I'm going to get a filter and run it through that and let it run for a few hours. Dilution is the solution to pollution! I would need gallons of brake fluid if I didn't filter and cycle it. I've got some cheapie fuel filters I'm going to use...

-Wayne

 

I ordered a $25 pump on Amazon that is used to remove oil from boat engines. I should be able to vary the pressure using my variable DC power supply. It's a 30-watt pump, which should probably succeed in making a huge mess in my garage when one of the tubes is not fastened tight enough!

-Wayne

 

One caliper done. At least I have momentum now.
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Ferrari Tech - Those are some great suggestions. I'm very wary of using an ultrasonic cleaner with the ABS block, as I'm not sure how the passages are closed and opened, and I might actually trap a whole bunch of water in there. I have that used block from an Audi I bought for $20 just to see what it looked like - I think I will drill it out and cut it open and post photos. I don't think anyone has done that on the web yet - there's nothing out there!

In the meantime, the new AL ABS block is on its way here from Germany. Depending upon how it compares to the Ferrari unit, I may use that one. But in the meantime, I will continue to clean this one out.

windsock - boil the ABS block? Hmm, does that work? How do you know you got all of the water out? That's my biggest concern on something like this - I don't think it would be possible to get all of the water out of the unit once it's been cleaned.

I'll keep everyone posted on the valve block flush. The fact that white crap debris already came out is both a good sign and a bad sign (confirmation of the contamination that I already knew was in there!). The plan would be to run the fluid through at pressure while turning the valves on and off. I wish I knew what the actual configuration of the valves and passages actually looked like though.

-Wayne

 

So, I got a more powerful pump tonight, but it's mostly a fluid flow pump, so it didn't like the high pressure put out by the block. That, or the block is clogged. I ran the pump through it for quite some time tonight. I'm hoping the Audi part that is coming is a close match for the block, as I think I would rather go that route. I had to dig the crap out of the calipers tonight, which leads me to believe that it's inside the ABS block and could cause problems in the future. The good news is that all of the valves appear to open and close (you can hear them moving when a magnet is put close to them).

Got three calipers cleaned and assembled, so making progress on that. Like the transmission heat exchanger, this repair is approaching 100 hours or so.

-Wayne


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