it only got papers so it could be registered as a road car. The car was not built by Ferrari but by Michelotto like most if not all early prototypes.
So let me see if I have this right… Michelotto builds a bunch of F40 prototypes. They want to be able to register one and drive it on the public roads. They arrange to “buy” one from Ferrari. Maybe they give Ferrari some money, or maybe not. In any case, no car or chassis is shipped from Ferrari to Michelotto, just a MSO (or whatever the Italian equivalent is) and maybe a chassis ID tag. They apply that ID to prototype and magically have a road legal "production" car. Seems a little shady, but I guess it could happen.
don't sit down and whine mr Sackey and do your own research. I have no obligation to post pictures here for you. Could it be that the owner does not want me to post pictures here?
Nobody's whining, and I have zero interest in researching this car, because, I'm not the one making a prototype claim about it. Nobody's making the assertion that 80697 is a factory prototype in this thread but you, therefore it's reasonable to ask you to substantiate your claim/s. Nobody has any obligation to believe your claims since your decline the offer to substantiate them, despite the fact that this could help establish the car's provenance if the claims are true. With all respect to the owner, if his car's chassis number is being posted here claimed to be a prototype without any substantiating evidence such as documents or pictures, the claim might as well not be made, so, we'll take the claim with a pinch of salt.
who are you to judge that I or the owner MUST post pictures here. Here on F chat were done many claims and assumptions about other F cars without photographical evidence. End of discussion.
It should be noted it is a royal "we" in your reply, as you only speak for yourself, I am more than happy to take on board Toms findings, given the vast amount of previous research he has carried out and information he has provided over a wide range of topics on fchat for a long time. On that basis alone your reply is condescending to a fellow enthusiast, simply because they are showing respect to their source and do not bow to your demands on here.
Guys, relax, nobody's saying you must post images here, what I'm saying is, if you make a claim, one that is disputed by multiple other knowledgeable sources, but decline to substantiate it upon invitation, it's fair enough for those sources to take it as just that, a claim.
there is no other knowledgeable source on this particular F40 prototype other then the owner. Certainly not multiple sources on fchat as far as I know of. But maybe someone surprises us with older photographs. I inspected the car last year in Italy.
Indeed this may happen, stay tuned. Just a year ago you were asking about 80697: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147524829/ "What about sn 80697 -five rear side vents -no front spoiler lip -more slots in the plexi window of the engine cove" Sounds like it would be fair to say you weren't sure what 80697 was just a year ago. Marcel then gave clarification: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147525552/ "Completed 22 January 1990. Sold new to Michelotto. Engine #17853, gearbox #625, body #193" You responded with these remarks underscoring again that you still weren't sure what 806697 was: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147527524/ "and side view mirrors mounting on the A-pillars Looks like a prototype no?" So, it's fair to say, inquiring minds wish to know: How is it that a car built well into F40 production in 1990 is a "prototype"? Just because a car has 5 vents, more slots in the Lexan and is missing a spoiler lip, is it automatically a prototype? Is it possible the car is a standard 1990 F40 built using a rear clamshell left over from production prototypes? Is it possible a car can be converted to look like a prototype to increase it's value? A year ago you were uncertain about this car's status, now you are definitive that it's a prototype, I think it's fair to ask, how come, what is the evidence that has established this change in position from uncertainty to definition? I don't think anyone needs to be upset, when claims are made on a public forum, asking for substantiation is fair enough.
OK, so how about this for a possibility... Michelotto buys 80697 from Ferrari as Marcel says. Michelotto has a prototype body sitting around and swaps it onto the 80697 chassis. Why? Maybe they have a customer that wants a drivable "prototype". Who knows?, but I could see it happening. The evidence that tomgt points to that I have seen has been all body related. So maybe 80697 is currently a production chassis with a prototype body and interior.
Not a standard F40 production chassis. It is a prototype built by Michelotto and owned by Michelotto.
Entirely possible. What we know is that 80697 is a standard F40 completed 22 January 1990, then sold to Michelotto with engine #17853, gearbox #625, and body #193. So we know it was allocated an in-sequence factory body number 193, which lends credence to your suggestion that Michelotto modified the car with a prototype-looking body, after all they of all people might have a spare one or two on hand. There certainly was motivation to do this as everyone knows that prototypes are more valuable than standard cars. By the very definition of the word, a prototype is a preliminary model of something from which other forms are developed or copied, therefore a prototype F40 would have been built in 1987, so a 1990 cannot by sequence be a prototype. I'm all for being open to receiving new wisdom and amending my records accordingly, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that there are more than 9 F40 prototypes.
In must be remembered that Ferrari paperwork and Ferrari facts do not always align, take the extra 100 Enzo's for example all wearing the same 399 plaque! Back in 1990 production F40s were trading for many multiples over list, and prototypes were just the cast offs, it would make no sense to retrofit out a production car into a less desirable at the time version, it will only be in more recent years that the runts of the litter become the desirable version, same with the LMs. Given the ongoing relationship between the two companies it would not be inconceivable for there to be enough early components left over to build up a car on an old un numbered chassis, hence the need to apply a later sequence number, I am sure the paperwork for such could easily have been made available if you know and are dealing on a daily basis with those in Ferrari that could facilitate such with a simple phone call. Then voila you have a road usable, saleable item ( maybe not at full value but still enough buyers wanting an F40 regardless) instead of a pile of left over non standard components that probably were of no use to anyone back then. I hate the term, but it could well be a bitsa, but Tom clearly has enough knowledge to be able to identify the differences between early components and later production versions, so if he is confident enough to now have put this in writing on here then I would say it is a very interesting find that has legs. Ferrari were not adverse to recycling old F40s either, take the USA homologation car ending up as an LM. From someone like Marcels viewpoint, then yes on paper it is a standard 1990 production car, and until he himself views it then that is how it will remain, but I am now sure it also has a side note attached to that chassis number in his files, to be further investigated. Had that chassis number originally been sold to anyone other than Michelotto then I would also have been very sceptical.
I know nothing about this other than what is in this thread. I am just trying to find a way that all of the well respected FChatters can be right, or at least close. I just find this sort of history interesting to figure out. From what Tom and Paul say, something closer to what I suggested in post 328 happened than what I suggested in post 337. We may be into some semantics here, but as Joe points out, by the english definition of the word, this cannot be a “prototype”. I do not know what the definition of “vettura esperienza”, so maybe it could be that. If it was cobbled together from spare parts by Michelotto, or even built from scratch after F40 production began, then it is neither a prototype nor a production car. I am not sure what to call it. Maybe Ferrari sent engine 17853 and gearbox 625 to Michelotto, but then we wonder what happened to body 193.
The bodies on all the LM cars were lightweight replacement panels, some say the donor cars were part built then shipped out from Maranello, others say they were full cars, so at some point in time Michelotto was awash with surplus F40 production spec panels, theses may have been re numbered and recycled back into the production line inc 193. If they were not renumbered then they would show up again on later chassis numbers, and I am sure Marcel would have spotted that long ago on his factory paperwork. All speculation though, and being 30 plus years ago then most that were involved would be long retired I imagine. No big deal to them back then, its only the number nerds that love such stuff now.
Lots of speculation and little more besides. Which brings us back to the same basic premise: we know of and accept that there are 9 F40 prototypes, and 31 years later if someone wishes to suddenly assert there are more, they cannot reasonably expect anyone to accept this new revelation on trust or at face value without supplying corroborating information (documents , images etc). Of course it's their prerogative to decline to supply any corroborative information, and it's our prerogative to therefore be skeptical and stick with what we has already been established. That said, the facts surrounding special cars always comes to light, even if it takes years.
"Data di consegna: Dicembre 1990" It proves factory records cannot be trusted blindly, the car was probably driven with just "Prova" or "A6" registration numbers before. But in this case the chassis number is clearly from a pre-production series.
13 December 1990 is the exact date. Build start for 76687 was 31 March 1988. This genuine vettura esperienza (test vehicle) and prototype remained at the factory from April 1988 until December 1990. The first private owner then became Mr. C. G. R. in Italy. Marcel Massini
Same story then, another 1990 car that in fact is much older. It wears more production like mirrors and rear clam now, but did it always though.
