F8 or STO? | Page 105 | FerrariChat

F8 or STO?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by dustman, Nov 17, 2020.

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  1. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Would you be kind enough to describe your driving experience with the STO?
     
  2. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    None....my opinion is based on "best ever" being so much more than lap times, 50 lbs of stickers, funky paint combinations, etc.

    Opinions differ....
     
    spyderman likes this.
  3. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Since you have never driven the STO leaves you in a position that your opinion is utterly bereft of value.
     
  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    It is of great value to myself, which is the only thing that counts....

    I honestly doubt Chris Harris has driven every Lamborghini variant....
     
  5. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    I am not saying its great or not as I haven't driven one yet, mine is due to come in March or April. In regards to the paint schemes and stickers this is all meaningless and as you might imagine you can spec to your taste. The reasons why he may call it the best Lambo ever is because it is has some very good attributes. Lightweight (relative to other Lambos), RWD, NA V10 engine, multi link suspension derived from the EVO and a host of other features that make it unlike anything they have ever built. Also, no need to drive every variant of the AV as there is very little difference from model to model. i.e. SV to SVJ
     
    uhn2000 likes this.
  6. XSpeed

    XSpeed Formula Junior

    Jan 6, 2019
    408
    Full Name:
    SX
    I can fit in the Pista and STO but not F8. There is also that.
     
  7. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    I hope you (and Cadster) enjoy it. I agree with your statement in bold. My issue with Harris calling it "the best Lamborghini ever" is that it is very narrowly focused around something he values more than most drivers would. But he has an opinion and I respect that. And no, I wasn't thinking about the Aventador either.
     
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  8. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    Honestly, I could care less about what Harris thinks, it's just entertainment.
     
  9. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651
    So guys sold my STO. Put around 600 km's, drove it enough to enjoy it but after owing 3 Huracan's I felt it was time to move on. I was going to buy a SVJ roadster but I was informed by my dealer I would get the first allocation for the AV replacement so I've decided to take it and not blow over a million dollars on the SVJ.

    I'll post more details on the AV replacement once someone creates a AV replacement thread.
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  10. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Why did you sell it so quick?
    Any details on the drive experience? Say compared to previous Performante?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651
    I was going to use the profit from the STO to buy a SVJ roadster. I've decided to wait and buy the AV replacement instead.

    In my opinion, the STO is better than the Perf. It felt lighter, tighter, better grip and look way more aggressive and more special than the Performante. The RWS also makes a big difference.

    That been said, the exhaust noise on the STO was a disappointment compared to the Performante but I was told the valves could be opened which would resolve the exhaust sound.
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  12. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,369
    Full Name:
    T
    Won’t the tax hit be massive? The next AV is more than a year out so you won’t get the trade credit towards the sales tax (20% in BC?) and the luxury tax (10%) will also be in place by then.
     
  13. italytrotter

    italytrotter Rookie

    Sep 19, 2015
    23
    World
    Regarding driving feedbacks, I posted a my impressions on the Lamborghini forum after attending a track day organized by Lamborghini.

    I am not going to bore the people here re-posting that long write-up here, but in summary I have been extremely impressed by the overall car performances.

    I basically drove back to back on the same track my 991.2 GT3RS and the STO, and the latter has not disappointed at all. I approached the event with a lot expectations and also some apprehension as I have vested interests in it (STO is coming next year), and thanks god it didn't disappoint.

    As others have mentioned above, the car feels very nimble, light, reactive and well planted, it has that mechanical feeling so engaging. Thanks to the pro drivers assigned to us I have been able to push the car to my limits and I was impressed how the car is neutral in its reactions, never intimidating, predictable and easy to control. I didn't buy the Performante when they launched it because after testing the car on road and track I didn't quite understand / feel the AWD system but here I found the very familiar RWD driving style that I love. Breaking power is outstanding and I liked this better than the RS.

    Engine sound completes the package and probably #1 reason why this car is good. The noise when you go past 5000rpm is massive, super loud, for me one of the loudest production cars I had the pleasure to drive. The valve "on/off" at 4500 rpm sucks for sure, but I guess the engineers have designed the system keeping in mind the urban/populated areas where the car need to be quiet at low speeds.

    It feels like it has all the ingredients to be a great driver's car, I could be wrong but it doesn't feel the fastest car on the block. If my goal was to clock the fastest lap on track, I probably would consider other choices.

    All in all I came out from the event with a big smile on my face and I cant wait for mine to come.
     
  14. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651

    There's no way my dealer would have gave me even half of what I got for my STO now so even after paying tax I'm ahead. There's no way around the 10% but lets see when the tax is actually implemented but it doesn't look like it's going in effect Jan 1st.

    And waiting a year for the AV replacement isn't a big deal, I waited a year to get my STO.
     
    ScrappyB likes this.
  15. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    Probably more like an 18 month wait or more on the AV replacement. It wont be officially announced until January and then it will take time before you can spec one and then the wait will begin. I will likely order one as well. From what I have heard it is going to be incredible and very limited.
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  16. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651
    I'm hearing deliveries might start end of next year but it's going to be an insane car.

    I might buy something in the short term if prices come down but right now it's not worth spending $1.2+m on a SVJ roadster.
     
    ScrappyB likes this.
  17. exoticcardreamer

    exoticcardreamer Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    1,051
    usa
    Full Name:
    doesitmatter
    I have STO incoming (submitted my spec in middle October with possible delivery of August 2022). I've been moved up by my dealer because a few people ahead of me wanted to wait for the carbon pieces that aren't available yet. I was just buying it because it looks like a pretty cool car and I fit into it without any problem (I had fittment issues with sv).

    I had a chance to go to Dream Racing in Las Vegas (courtesy of my dealer and lamborghini), to test out the Essenza. They also allowed me to test out their STO. it exceeded my expectations and got me a bit excited to get it now. Expected delivery is going to be april/may 2021 for me now.

    I didn't cross shop it with any other car (I already have 765 spider inbound).
     
    ScrappyB likes this.
  18. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    I talked to my dealer today. He told me to expect about 24 months before the first ones hit. Hopefully I am in the front of the line. I was the 3rd to receive a Performante and probably would have been the same for the STO had I not drug my feet on my spec by flirting with a custom color in the spirit of British Racing Green. I don’t like the idea of hybrid assisted cars, but if anyone can make the package work, it’s Lamborghini. The concept of a 1100hp V12 electric assisted, DCT equipped, Lamborghini is simply too intoxicating to not consider.
     
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  19. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    I would cross post the entire review. I was a very strong review. There are many people on this board that do not frequent the Lamborghini board.
     
    Ash Patel likes this.
  20. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651
    I don't think 24 months because that would mean the end of 2023, way too long for Lamborghini not to have a flagship model for sale. I'm hearing 12-18 months. GM's got a preview of the replacement during the dealer meeting couple weeks ago so that indicates the car is near production ready.

    In my opinion the replacement timeline will depend on when the Ultimae production wraps up which as of today is suppose to wrap up in June.
     
    Shack, Thecadster and Gh21631 like this.
  21. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
    Earth
    And herein lies the answer :)
     
  22. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    Is the AV replacement any bigger inside than the current models?
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  23. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    I sure hope so. I was joking with my dealer yesterday while reminiscing about how I came to the showroom three different times and sat in a SVJ trying desperately to talk myself into making it work. For such a large car, the cabin in the Aventador is ridiculously undersized.
     
  24. italytrotter

    italytrotter Rookie

    Sep 19, 2015
    23
    World
    I re-post what I wrote in the Lamborghini forum for those of you interested in some STO driving impressions but you are not following that particular forum.
    These are my very own opinions, another driver may have a completely different feedback.

    Contest:
    I attended a track day organized by Lamborghini to test the STO organized in the Abu Dhabi Yas Marina F1 racing track. I will make a comparison with my 991.2 GT3RS (I drove it on the same track 2 days earlier) as both the RS and STO have NA powertrain and they are designed to be track focused cars as their manufacturers claim to represent the pinnacle of track driving experience.
    Lamborghini showed up with 5 STOs, a team of pro drivers, Lambo service support and Bridgestone team. These cars had no plates, so unfortunately no road drive was allowed.

    General set-up
    The STO in the paddock looks menacing and a true racing car, it looks great in any colors. Pictures really don't tell what this car is about.
    STO has higher clearance than the RS, I measured 10cm in the front lip in my RS vs 13.5cm in the STO, the latter should be easy to drive it around even without the lifter.
    All STOs where with sport seats only, 2 of them with the 4 points racing belts and Ti roll bar.
    The tires available on the STO were Bridgestone both Racing and Sport. Instructors were driving in front of us with lead cars giving us the pace.
    My RS is the Weissach pack, runs on Michelin Cup 2 and has the Manthey Racing suspension setup and wheels alignment, 5 points racing belts, Ti roll bar and bucket seats.

    Driving position:
    Overall I had a decent clearance with the helmet on the STO (I am 180cm), sport seats are very comfortable. Racing belts are interesting and I will come back to this later. On the RS you seat more upright as the seat is fixed, and with the helmet you lean forward, not ultra-comfortable as you expect but functional when you drive on track.
    Visibility in the STO was ok and I have not felt missing anything as the 2 side mirrors are large enough to have a good control of what is happening behind and around you. Road use may be different as you probably need a better visibility with the rear mirror. RS overall has a better visibility as you seat higher and you have a better sense where the car ends in front of you, on the STO you have to figure out where your front lip is – something minor on track but on the road could be something
    The STO interior is understated and i like it, very clean and no distractions. Same in the RS, I like how is understated and a bit old fashioned considering that the industry is going all digital.
    I prefer the RS shift paddles anchored to the steering wheel rather in fixed position. Maybe be because I am not very used to them on track but I find inefficient to move the hand around to find the paddles in tight corners.
    In both cars I don’t like the huge height gap between the accelerator pedal and the brake. In racing cars (or also in other supercar manufacturers) you can slide the right foot from the accelerator to the brake as they are at the same level so it is faster (unless you plan to brake with your left foot!).

    Engine sound:
    We had an EVO and the STOs slowly driving around the paddock and for sure the EVO was louder.
    While driving, as many others have reported, on the STO there is a very noticeable “sound barrier” at 4500 rpm and from a characteristic but civilized sport sound you go to a very loud scream. I never liked the way the valve opens in the RS at 3800 rpm but in the STO is even more accentuated because of the larger sound gap. I was wearing the helmet so the resonance could have amplified that but the difference was too abrupt.
    Lambo service team told me that opening the valve is a quick fix (you disconnect and close the vacuum hoses) and there is no technical issue nor warranty problems. It could be the solution as I suspect that the 3000-5000 rpm range will be the most common window while road driving and having this “on-off” transition sound each time may not be so ideal. I will reassess this once I can drive on normal roads.

    When you push, the car is very loud beyond 5000 rpm, I was wearing my helmet so you get a lot of resonance, but I can tell you it could have been the loudest production stock car I have experienced so far. So loud that I was not able to understand anything the pro driver was telling me with the VHF handheld. RS is definitely quieter. The car is so loud to a point that you may need earplugs for a long track day or a specific headsets if you want to have a conversation on track. While pushing the car I was thinking that the sound is so massive that if you have the police nearby you could get in serious trouble….I watched the car from the paddock pushing on the straight, and the sound was insanely loud compared to other cars…when I asked earlier in the day to the Lambo team why they have this valve and they said "so you can drive the car in town without getting in trouble". I think that make sense after all…

    Engine has a lower tone as opposed to the higher pitch of the RS, and has a good progression until you reach the 8500 rpm red line. STO pops on downshifts, but I think much less than the Performante. My only regret is that the STO does not reach a higher RPM, in the RS when you go from 8000 to 9000 you get that screaming sound which is so engaging and make you feel sitting in a racing car.

    Overall I love the STO sound, it is engaging and a great contributor to the driver’ adrenaline and driving rhythm, I can’t wait to drive it on normal roads…

    Driving
    What I always liked of the RS is that it makes you sweat…it is mechanical, stiff, simple, raw, has a mechanical noise and likes to move and slide around when you push it. It is an intense driving and not very forgiving if you are not careful. I usually drive the RS with ESC/TC off on track but even when engaged the intervention is quite minimal and the car tend to slide or oversteer when you push.
    It was a good feeling to find many similar traits on STO. The car is planted, feels very light, stiff and has that mechanical feeling overall, but it feels overall more refined, think about the gearbox noise in the RS. It is a simple car to set for track: you put in Trofeo mode, manual, and you are all set. The STO engine is much revving than the RS, it goes up in RPM much faster, and it sounds much better at low revs. Acceleration is very progressive as you expect from an NA engine, I love how predictable and controllable is the power.

    I had the pro driver in front of me setting the pace so I reached my 100% of my capabilities but it was evident that the car had so much more to give. What impressed me is how the car is stable and balanced, neutral with no understeer at all. I had to drive with ESC on (we were not allowed to turn it off for this test drive) and I definitely noticed a very decisive intervention to avoid sliding and powerslides, I tried to un-balance the car or powerslide/drift but the car was always very planted and no loss of the driving line. I had the feeling that with all the nannies off the STO will be a very playful toy.

    Last few laps I really pushed hard and yes the car was starting to feel light on the turns but still easily controllable and not intimidating. The RS is not that forgiving, I cannot smash the turns like this and have such a neutral behavior. Also, the RS out of the box was not very balanced with the factory setup, it had a noticeable understeering at high speed that has been corrected with the Manthey Racing setup.
    The braking system in the STO is superb, super powerful (I really smashed it during the test), I love the long pedal excursion allowing a perfect braking modulation. I like it much better than the RS where the pedal excursion is very short. In the STO when you break from very high speed you feel a very minor zig-zag on the tail but nothing that make you feel in danger.
    I checked the video footages with telemetry I recorded in both cars and I was surprised the time and speed I was able to clock with the STO, considering the limited experience on this car. It could have been the pro driver in front of me but in few sectors I was much faster with the STO vs the RS. I am very satisfied and the STO has such great potential.

    I am stating the obvious now but the sport seats in the STO with the normal seat belts are not the best setup for such high speed driving – the car put serious G on the turns and you feel your body is moving too much. The situation improves a lot with the 4 points racing belts as your body stays where it should. The setup for me is racing seats racing belts, even if I will not on track every weekend, I feel that such a car needs a more extreme seating setup to feel stable to the limit.

    Bridgestone tires were very good, even in the sport version. Sport tires only shown some limitations on the high speed corners where you can appreciate the much harder shoulder of the racing version.

    Final thoughts
    I really loved the STO experience and I feel very excited for mine to come. The rawness and sound is worth the money and the wait. I was afraid that the STO would be an overlap with the RS but it is not, they have a very different soul and transmit different emotions.

    Having said that I feel that these are cars less and less relevant today from a pure time lap point of view. Turbo cars offer another level of performances so if I was looking to be the #1 on track I would look for other options.

    Last, these NA cars offer the best when they are pushed to the upper RPM so you can be constantly to prohibitive/dangerous speeds in normal roads, whereas a turbo gives a lot also at relatively low RPM and speed.

    For me at least, these "slow" NA cars can still offer a lot.
     
  25. SLDriver

    SLDriver Formula Junior

    May 1, 2005
    651
    I've heard from people who saw the car it's similar to the Aventador.
     
    SoCal to az likes this.

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