New Market price for 430 6-speed | Page 2 | FerrariChat

New Market price for 430 6-speed

Discussion in '360/430' started by Way2fast, Dec 3, 2021.

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  1. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,561
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Imho.. probably at the risk if getting flamed ..anything different from how it was spec'd at factory will never be collector material . conversions will pull a little more money than a F1 until the craze of it is over and possibly a F1 original (i e. Scud) will surpass it

    Again only an opinion

    I like to think of it like a Daytona convertible ..

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  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    Daytona convertibles traded way high no?
     
  3. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    Factory originals did but conversions did not do the same .. a true Daytona conv is worth way more than a coupe that was cut

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  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    18,766
    Yes but the converted daytonas were more expensive than the coupes
     
  5. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    Based on quick look/research .. a conversion is pulling in less now than a coupe .. where a true conv is pulling in 5x more

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  6. FordGTDriver

    FordGTDriver Formula Junior

    Jun 9, 2007
    423
    This is not complicated: bidding on your own car without full, prior disclosure: Illegal. Seller colluding with someone else to place fictitious bids on their behalf to drive the auction price up without full prior disclosure: Illegal. On BaT, if the seller bids on his own items under a pseudonym without disclosure, it's fraud. Same thing if it's one of the seller's buddies shilling at the request of the seller. Keep in mind that on BaT, the buyer's commission is withdrawn from the buyer's account the instant the auction closes. I know this because I bought two cars on BaT, and my buyer fee came out of my pre-debited account immediatly. This means that on these high dollar cars, if the shill gets stuck posting the last bid, they lose $5000 instantly to buy a car they (or their buddy) already own. BaT also monitors activity to identify shill bidding and tries very intensely to prevent it. Shilling hurts everyone, even the seller.

    Chandelier bidding is generally seen where there is a reserve on the car, and the auctioneer is advancing the bid to save time. This still requires full disclosure, but it is sometimes seen as a necessary evil. Chandelier bidding on a non-reserve auction is Illegal unless fully disclosed prior to the auction.

    I'm skeptical that BaT is rife with fraud...it just doesn't make sense unless a buyer has broadcasted that they intend to buy the car regardless of price. While this may motivate shill bidding, its still illegal.

    I think the secret on BaT is the same as any auction: do your homework, set a price, and don't go above that number. Just because a car sells at a higher than expected number doesn't mean that the number was the product of fraud.
     
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  7. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    Franklin Park, New Jersey
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    John Napoli
    Regarding the value of conversions,...

    And this is just opinion and speculation,

    There is the case of Yenko Camaros, modified originals that became valuable,

    No one knows what people will be thinking when they come up for sale 15-20 years from now, except that quality cars with conversions will probably be sought after at some level
     
  8. mchas

    mchas F1 Veteran
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    Oct 5, 2004
    5,903
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    Mark
    Crazy. Personally not a fan of that interior but to each his own. And I just don’t see $350k + fee + tax + shipping = almost $400k of value here.

    Once again kicking myself for not buying the 2008 red/tan with 7k miles in 2017 for $154k.

    Paging @johnfe who owns a beautiful 2009 red/tan low mile car. This should make him happy.
     
  9. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    John Napoli
    The market for these did shoot up relatively quick for sure and so many of us have 'shouldas' I'm sure. I know I do.

    That interior is 'unique', but when it comes to collecting, uniqueness is the name of the game.

    This gorgeous, mint 6 speed went for $319k + tax + fees back in July 2018. Special cars get special value.

    https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0520-415066/2007-ferrari-f430-spider/
     
  10. Shopcat

    Shopcat Karting

    Nov 14, 2015
    84
    NLA
    BAT has plenty of shady bidding going on... last year I noticed https://bringatrailer.com/member/dsfm2005/, a Texas based dealer who sells a ton on BAT had one guy who never comments ALWAYS bidding on his cars. https://bringatrailer.com/member/jgc930/ had literally bid MILLIONS of dollars on dsfm2005's cars without EVER winning one, and he was bidding them HIGH, not throwaway bids... pretty obvious what was going on considering he always either lost in the end or he was high bidder but auction was RNM. Once people started calling him out suddenly the bidder disappears for over a year, going from multiple bids per week to literally zero. Appears he is now back and bidding on the same dealers listings again but only occasionally. Im sure they were just using other throwaway accounts the last year and are now rotating. This probably happens for most of the regular dealers on any auction site.
     
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  11. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    This practice should be brough to the attention of BAT

    If this can be documented as factual (not doubting what Shopcat is saying) then it should be acted upon.

    This type activity destroys the free enterprise and needlessly inflates the market
     
  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    It is a deeper conversation and I think shades of grey what is illegal and what just simply doesn't seem ethical. I think most of us private buyers expect way too much about the honesty of the market, but we're looking around the poker table and don't know who else the patsy is.

    Any comparison to the much more heavily regulated securities markets? Buying up a stock, putting out Buy research reports, and then buying up more on low volume days or after hours. Maybe even more relevant putting the word out to institutional buddies buy buy buy...

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/df858fc7-74f7-43dd-9bd9-c3261a457705

    Ohh, then how about putting the word out to media friends, social media, YouTube channels...

     
  13. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    All true and why one has to use common sense in buying as when one deals with ETF's.

    I have always believed that when everyone wants the same thing that is the time to stay away

    But again if you can document the stated BAT activity you should bring that to the attention of BAT management
     
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  14. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,207
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    Sam
    I definitely know friends who have asked to have their vehicle bid up near their reserve. I think that let's an actual bidder know where the price is at.

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  15. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    Feb 8, 2021
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    the interior on the BAT car was hard to UNSEE....Rare doesn't always translate to desirable....Gorgeous car for sure....but the seats....OMG....WHY????
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    I like them OK, don't like the black spine down middle, just if straight daytona piping. we did that on our 2017 Cali T spec and it came out awesome.

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  17. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    your interior is GORGEOUS compared to the 430 car. The large black inserts were, again solely in my opinion, unsightly....gosh...
     
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  18. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
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    dc
    I have two tone daytonas. You just can't really see it since they are dark grey.
     
  19. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula 3
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    Oct 28, 2015
    1,143
    MD
    All I can say is WOW!!

    I think it has been, especially, for Porsches for the past two to three years. However, I don't think it was for Ferraris until about 6 months ago. Ferraris in general were not abundant. Gated 360 spiders have been much more frequent lately with gated Modenas few and far between. The inflation pecking order of 355s, 360s, and 430s (spiders and berlinetas) wasn't clear how it was playing out. It clearly is now!
     
  20. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    the 351K was an anomaly. the fact that it was an 09 helped for sure....i don't think this is really the market for 430 cars, but it definitely raised the bar to be sure.
     
  21. 430tdf

    430tdf Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2008
    276
    Canada
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    Brett
    I'm not sure how rare the dual color interior on the 430 is, I did it on my 08 spider but more tastefully than the BAT car in my opinion and I did the spine in the middle back in 08 Rob. I'm one that hopes the bid translate into future prices as my car has similar miles and options.
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  22. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    but for some reason your interior is SO nice compared to the similarly optioned BAT car with black inserts. Your interior is stunning.....
     
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  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    stick murci just went over 500K
     
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  24. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    with 12k miles on it.....
     
  25. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    479
    Sweden
    As long as EAG charges 35k for a conversion the conversions will be the price for a F1 car +35k? I think the conversion market could do with a 45k price tag considering the amount of conversions being done. I was priced out at 20k already though...
     
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