355 Loud Rattle from Clutch Area

Can it be replaced without removing the pumpkin?

Looking at part 12, it looks like it needs a special tool

 

If lucky pressure plate finger. If not look deeper to the clutch shaft when ringnut comes loose and gears bang on shaft. That’s what it sounds like to me but video is not clear.

 

If it's the rear bearing, you have to remove the bell housing. Some of the balls have probably dropped in there. It's also a good way to inspect the throw out bearing and other internals.

When this happened to me, I heard a rattle from the rear as I drove along pit row ready to get on the track. I thought it was a loose heat shield. When I pitted in, the rattle was louder. By the time I got to the garage, it was making a terrible racket.

I was fortunate in that this occurred on the last session of a three-day event.

 

They're not the kind of fingers I was hoping to cross

Now we're talking big dollars

 

Ian I have the tool. I can remove the pumpkin for you no trouble. It sounds like the rear bearing to me.

 

The big rear bearing is 40 x 80 x 30.2, SKF 3208A-2RS2 TN9/C3 HT22 (grease & seals for up to 140C). The full equivalent is SKF 3208A-2RS2 TN9/C3 VT113 (also 140C). Both seem rather hard to find. In the local bearing shops, I could only find SKF 3208A-2RS1 TN9/C3 MT33 which has grease & seals for up to 120C. Bought one for spare, guess 120C limit will be fine as I will not race the car.
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I ordered one from Eurospares last week, Miro, but it looks like it has to come from the factory.

 

The bearings just arrived from the UK.

Just exploring other possibilities. Might a starter cause this noise (if it wasn't disengaging properly)? I see I would have problems sourcing one of these, too.

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I see starter is held on with three bolts. (28 x 2 and 29 x 1) Not sure how hard it would be to remove them.

 

Very easy to remove the starter....

 

I see there are quite a few bolts on the back of the pumpkin. I just have to find the right ones which hold the starter on. I guess these 3 bolts...

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I recall there are quality starter solenoid repair kits available in the UK, but they wouldn't would arrive before my annual registration is due.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251718574529

 

Those are the three.

 

Thanks, Elliott.

I took the starter off and there was nothing obviously wrong. No broken springs. The drive was fully in as far as I could tell (when not energised). No wear on the teeth.
I won't need a solenoid repair kit just yet, but I bought one just in case. YouTube has some good videos on starter disassembly and reassembly.

As Mitch said, the starter was easy to pull off... even without jacking up the car (I do have smaller than normal cats, however). Putting it back was a real pain however. It's hard to support the starter and line up the bolts with holes when you're working alone.

I don't know if the procedure is any easier on a 2.7 car.

 

Hi Ian,

My starter motor failed midway through the first day of a two-day event at Sebring in 2018. I knew it had a dead spot which in the rare event that it occurred, rocking the car back and forth in second gear would re-enable the starter motor. But that trick didn't work that day and we resorted to pushing my car forward while in neutral and me popping the clutch to start the car, just like in "the old days."

We had to do something for the second day, however. Push-starting was okay the first day while the fuel lines were full of fuel. We had to switch-out the bad starter motor. There was only a 360 starter motor on the truck so my technician modified it for my F355 Challenge and I helped him switch starter motors. We got up before dawn to do this and had it all done by dawn. It took about two hours to do which included the time it took for the technician to modify the 360 starter motor. We didn't have to jack the car up either. My technician was happy that during installation he had my two hands to support the 360 starter motor to facilitate lining up the bolts...


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Barry

 

Just making sure here- did you inspect that rear bearing yet? I'm curious what is causing this noise.

 

Still a work in progress, Paul. I took the coverplate off the bearing (4 screws) a few days ago, but I couldn't see much. The seal looked intact on the visible side. I'm currently waiting for a sunny day to book my car into my local tech.... Rain is forecast for the next few weeks. I have the parts ready to go, but now I'm not sure if I'll need them.

 

I listened to this again and it sounds like it’s the Voith flywheel.

 

What could be wrong with it, Elliott? Bearing failure? Out of alignment? Hitting the starter motor? The starter motor seems to be retracting ok.

I've already have a new bearing for it.

 

The grease in side can get contaminated with gear oil and migrate away from the internal springs which causes a rattle. It’s either the rear bearing you have ordered or the voith.

 

My guess is voith.

 

If gear oil was leaking, wouldn't I see oil dripping on my garage floor?

I really hope it is something simple like this, as I have all the seals and bearings ready to go. Just need some grease. Unfortunately, my local tech is booked up until the New Year, so no car for the holiday season.

 

Do the springs ever break on these ... and are they available individually... or would I be up for a new $10,000 flywheel?

 

The springs don't break, when the grease dries or gets slung out it rattles, also makes it hard to start when hot. If one does not address the the plastic blocks can melt, that's a bigger issue as they are NLA. The grease dampens the movement. Have a look pretty easy to do.

 

Ian,

Four years ago, I brought my car to Pocono Sportscar. My F355 Challenge was not being serviced properly at its previous support shop. My car was making a loud rasping sound when idling, very different than the video you posted. This was after my rear bearing had been replaced a few years earlier. I was told it was normal although two other Challenge cars next to mine in the garage at Watkins Glen were not making such noises.

My car had its first major service at Pocono Sportscar in December 2017. Amongst other neglected items, they found the internal plate of the flywheel damaged from the lack of grease...


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They found a used flywheel in excellent shape for $2500 and replaced my damaged assembly. They routinely service my flywheel annually with the proper Klubber grease package as it should be.

I still think it's the rear bearing as the sound your car is making sounds just like the sound I heard when my rear bearing failed. But as Elliott mentioned, it might be the flywheel considering yours hasn't been serviced in several years and the grease has probably dried out. You'll soon find out when your car gets to the pros.

Barry

 

That's a great video you posted, Eric.

Barry

 

Actually, I had seen this video, a long time ago. Perhaps not beyond my skill set, but it would be too expensive to DIY... I don't have a fraction of the tools:

400Nm torque wrench, rattle guns, spline bits, straight edges, presses, etc.

I had my gearbox overhauled and the clutch plate was replaced 800km ago, but I can't recall if the grease was replaced.