Maserati Classiche and the Maserati Certification of Authenticity

Walter take your Prozac and stick to Meraks;-)

 

Here we go again ...

Do you really think people are going to leave those bumpers on a Khamsin?

 

Well, Walter is right in his line of thinking, it is exactly how the factory has set out its lines, based on homologation, not on esthetics.

 

They are not in possession of the full picture and need to understand the damage the US market disfigurations did then and later.
I will speak with them and highlight what they are missing.

 

I feel Walter and Pedro is correct, if the aim of Maserati Classiche is to certify a car conforms to its original specification when it left the factory. It starts to become very difficult if we pick and choose what parts of history we like and dislike.
However a cars history is acquired during it life, and not the day it left the factory so many changes especially to race cars and pre war cars have been with the car much longer than the original features so it could be detrimental to remove them, or maybe better taking it back to a certain point in time.
A large number of 3500 GT`s have been upgraded to 5 speed gearboxes, and many injection cars are running Webers, surely this is going to cause issues.
Personally I am not a fan of whether a car has a certificate or it does not, give me a full history file to read as I would prefer to make up my own mind about the car, that being said I have been collecting cars well before anyone was obsessed with matching numbers. They were just purchased to enjoy.

If the intention is to preserve and enhance Maserati`s rich history then it must be applauded.

 

Marc,
I am very much looking forward if you can change Maserati`s thinking. I personally doubt that......

 

Marc, can you stop this silly comments? Can you...??? You have your opinion - I have mine! Get that. But what I can ask for is...respect! I respect your activities and thinking. Thank you!

 

But this is not the issue here!

 

And here you are completely wrong! Only the factory can decide what`s original and what`s not! Period! And in particular when it comes to the specification that came on a car during their responsibility.
Why should Modena care about the (US-) market????

 

Its exactly that!

 

I don’t know, maybe because it’s their largest Market?

 

so Mike what you’re saying is that single handedly Marc has waged a campaign to ensure that not a single Khamsin built for US market will ever qualify for Maserati’s Classiche certification!

 

The problem of cars that received modifications after they left the factory, but still have significance to the history of the brand was solved by Ferrari in their Classiche program with the Attestation for Vehicles of Historical Interest classification.

 

Hi Joe. Actually I am not saying that at all. I just posed the question in light of the changes many US cars have undergone. In my original post I also indicated we will need to wait and see. I really think that’s what we will need to do. My apologies for starting a somewhat controversial discussion. We really need to see their full plan on this matter.

Mike

 

Mike
I was joking, notice the little. It was too easy and a great setup to poke a little fun at Marc since he convinced both of us to convert our Khamsins to Euro bumpers.

 

Well some people are oblivious. Try living in the USA and owning one of these cars.

 

Flaws and all?

 

If that is the case, and if US cars were converted to EU specs (e.g. bumpers), it is certain that in the long run original EU cars will be more valued than US cars...

 

Walter you know I respect you when you are not over bearing. Do not, again and again, try to impose your view as the only valid one, don't be insecure about it, just make your arguments.

Your line of thinking, if we replace Khamsins with children is that only the pretty children get to live and enjoy life the others must be shunned in the shadows, forgotten, their health deteriorating.

What you don't seem to understand is that for decades Khamsins in the US were shunned, looked down on, sat unused, rotting away. That was before bumper conversions began.

I had mine in Florida 6 months before I did the bumper conversion December 2004. The visual impact on people, BEFORE, their facial expressions: disgust, disbelief, shock, made you think they had seen a disfigured lady. Every day every time I saw people look at it. How do you think that makes you feel as an owner? many owners of unconverted cars shared with me that feeling, not pleasant, WHY would you want to own a car that creates such negative reactions, that is so disfigured?

Immediately AFTER I converted it it was 100% positive comments and questions, approving looks, thumbs up. As if they had seen a very beautiful glamorous lady.

FYI I did a census of my Registry data just recently because someone asked me the question and I could not resist my impulse to spend hours and hours eking out this data.

Well the result of this census is new information.

At least 70 of the 155 US market Khamsins are now in Europe, the massive majority of which have been converted.

Lots of other very interesting data in that census which I sent to Fabio Collina at Maserati Classiche for their use and thank back since he helps me every month on this or that data. I will share that later.

Why is that? Why that unpopularity? Because Americans had ONLY seen the US version and for decades did not want it, hence they were cheap so starting in the 80's a lot of European dealers and collectors starting buying US K's and shipping them to Europe, knowing what they had, converting them more and more in recent years.

The USA government Ralf Nader design was IMPOSED upon Maserati, disfiguring 155 USA version Khamsins.

Do you really want to throw them in the garbage?

Do note that I am NOT in this post discussing homologation, there is a solution even Stellantis lawyers will be happy with, I will explain that in another post probably not today, am busy in Geneva.

Photos Copyright and kind courtesy of Art Harvey.

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Amazing how that works out for some folks ...

This is a pet peeve of mine. When you look at some of the spectacular restorations which have had hundreds of thousand of dollars poured into to them they're no longer original at all.
But that get overlooked ... These cars were NEVER originally assembled this carefully and perfectly. The quality level has been raised to astronomical levels in many cases.

In the case of Boras up to and including MY 74 the bumper swamp is a trivial exercise. That leaves the side marker lights and emissions equipment. The lights are easily fixed during a repaint as many have been done. The pollution equipment & tuning is easily rectified. At this point there are zero differences. Only a moron would leave that ineffective and dangerous emissions equipment in place. Side marker lighting and the various bumpers pre 75 are a matter of personal taste in my view. The large rubber bumpers are a whole other kettle of fish, much harder to change. But they do work far better that the flimsy SS ones which really just trim and not actual bumpers.

 

With the new cars, yes, but with the old ones?
And, btw., during the last 6 years I ordered copies of hist. documents from FA
abio for about 8,500 Euros...should you call this as a market.

 

Bob, but the question is not what works better. The general question is: Is the car in that original specification as it rolled thru the gates in Modena. Nothing mo`but nuttin`less...
Maserati will not check the quality of the restoration unless it has been done completely wrong and by that I don't just mean the change in color. The fact whether a car has been restored or not is irrelevant for certification. It is all about the certification with regard to all original components!

 

You seem not to understand!
No doubt, the EU-version of Bora and Khamsin are much prettier. And it is not relevant in any case that a certification is based on "...100% positive comments and questions, approving looks, thumbs up..."
Look at the Countach from Lamborghini: they -officially!- came only with this silly bumpers to the US. Some of the 400S, 5000S, 5000QV have been converted and some -or the majority?- not. But these factory made modifactions are accepted now. Look to the famous Cannonbal-car!
I clearly understand that K´s in the US were shunned and treated very bad - but this was not the fault of Maserati. Lets look to the famed Ferrari Breadvan of which you wrote a book: born as a 250SWB it was converted in period to this much lighter but -IMHO- not very pretty coachwork. Ferrari had difficulies to certificate this car. After years of discussing it was finally decided that the car would be certificated - but in a very special way. And not one of its former owners would have been thinking about to re-convert it to the SWB coachwork only to get the official Ferrari blessings.

And for both of our personal relationship here on this forum: think about it before saying "humorous" things that can be clearly misunderstood. OK? Thanks. Back to cars.

 

Most likey, yes...

 

Yes, flaws and all. Same rules as with any Ferrari!