SF90 Destroyed in So. California

It definitely does not feel like a soft car from my experience.

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Did you put the car in “car wash” mode? This allows the car to be pushed around in the car wash and may have turned off traction control?? You’d know if you did - there is a procedure to follow to do it.

I have been driving around in very cold wet weather for several days now with the cup2s (3-5c temp outside) and lots of rain here in Seattle. So far I only have had a little bit of under steer but nothing concerning.

 

For us who don't drive our Ferraris on track, at least not often, should we switch out the cup2?

 

You won’t normaly feel the benefit of cup2 on public road. MP4S is better choice for the road.
On track, cup2 is only way to go. Front needs massive grip level otherwise it will understeer alot.

MP4S



Cup2




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It really depends on the temps of where you live. Below 40 C the MPS4S is a better tyre. If you can keep the temp up in the tyres when you drive, the MPSC2 is nice. If it's a colder or wet area, the MPS4S is generally the better tyre.

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40 C?

 

40 Celsius = 104 Fahrenheit

 

are you talking tire temp? surely not ambient temp.

 

Aren't these cars AWD? + they are super heavy. Yeah the tires may not have been warmed but it shouldn't have gone sideways to that extreme unless someone is standing on the throttle. If the car whipped out, then it hit the curb all bets are off as to where the drivers feet would be at that time but the initial cause had to be immediate acceleration.

 

ambient...

 

40c ambient? No way we have that up in the North

 

W/ ESC off I bet it’ll lite the tires up

 

Very interesting to hear from the driver. I have a lot of sympathy for him. I had the same experience, I mentioned it on one of the threads a while ago. I was fortunate, as was my passenger, my teenage cousin. With warm tyres this, like most Ferraris, is a car you can take liberties with. Ferrari’s chassis software and calibration is so good. You become very familiar with the way the car wants to be driven, its feedback to you informs you how to drive it. With all powerful cars, consistency is important because even with 500hp, you are dealing with a very powerful machine that can get you into trouble very quickly. Even at top pro level an inconsistent car is slower and much riskier. I have found the SF90 to be a very approachable and consistent car when driving quickly.

So how come I had the same problem, the car snapping sideways at slow speed (less than 40 mph) and depositing me over the other side of the road? It’s a question I have been pondering. I was in Q and Race mode, a natural and instinctive thing that has become part of my ‘start-up’ procedure. The temperature was around 9 degrees C and it was humid and autumnal with cold roads and fallen leaves around. I remember from the Pilota courses that Race mode allows a lot of slip, which is ideal with warm, grippy tyres at high speed because the car progresses from somewhere over 1 G lateral force to beginning to slip and the mode allows it for a while. But if you use Race mode on the skid pan, with a wet surface, you can very easily spin the car because the pace at which the rear moves overwhelms the slower-acting Race traction control.

I left our house slowly, and was adjusting the fan or something like that. Then, a few seconds later thought, I’m going too slowly and gave a normal prod of the accelerator, the sort of thing that would get you from 30 to 50 mph with the kind of energy a Golf GTI could match. Without warning the car slewed sideways (Driving on the left, the rear stepped out left to at least 45 degrees - which feels like completely sideways) an instant and natural reaction is to turn into the skid, which I did. I caught it but not before it put me the other side of the road with, happily, nothing coming the other way and nothing but a grassy verge edging the opposite lane. With different road furniture my incident could have looked just like this one. I thank God for keeping me, my passenger and anyone that might have been coming the other way safe. The car too (it sustained some wheel scratching, damaged PPF and needs a couple of scratches removed, plus some replacement vanes underneath but as seen from the pictures posted earlier could have been far worse).

So far, my conclusion is that, in temperatures below 15 degrees C be very careful with the SF90’s 1,000hp and cold Cup 2 tyres. Q and Race should not be thought of as ‘default start-up’ modes unless the outside temperature is higher. Be prepared to use the Performance mode (when is 850hp really not enough?) unless the tyres are properly warm and Sport mode as an extra measure of security if it’s cool and moist at the same time - I don’t mean wet, for that I guess wet mode is a good idea.

In other words, treat the car with more respect. Here’s the lesson I am going to take, and maybe others can benefit too - up to you if you think it’s relevant. I am a very experienced and decently fast driver on road and track. I am an enthusiast and I use my brain to think about why cars work and handle the way they do - weight, where is it, how does it transfer in cornering, what is influencing grip, when should I deploy power and how aggressively, how do I adopt and then modify a braking technique to suit the conditions, how smooth are my inputs etc.

What I am not is neither a professional nor invincible. And what Ferrari (or any other excellent brand) is not, is a re-writer of the laws of physics. If a 1,000hp car feels approachable and accessible it’s because some very clever man-made devices allow it to behave that way. You need to understand them and not assume they just work in all conditions the same way. In the pursuit of fast fun, don’t take liberties and fall into a sense of “this car is my friend because I am a good driver”. It’s a hard lesson and perhaps we have Mr Drenk to thank, at his personal cost, in providing a stark reminder that no matter how brilliant we think either we or the cars are, neither is invincible. In future, I’ll be paying a lot of attention, (even more than usual because I’ve never been a lazy or casual driver) to conditions and perhaps factoring the stats into my driving rather than just the feeling through the seat and wheel.

Oh, and by the way, the accelerator thing is easy to explain if Mr Drenk is a left-foot braker, as I am. To get instant application of either throttle or brake and remove the risk of catching footwear between pedal movements, I believe left foot braking is both quicker and safer plus offers less fatigue over time. I have never before heard of an incident where the pedal box comes through the floor, influencing the throttle attitude. On balance, I think the occasions where this could happen are far fewer than the times when left-foot braking can be a safety advantage.

 

Counter steering and correcting the car during slide is not a natural thing.
One has to practice and learn. A lot of practice required.
Usualy, common answer for car slides too much or spins or snapping the other direction means slow hands and lazy foot.

Firstly, uou have to be quick about it. Car will not wait for slow hands.
Also, you have to be precise with steering angle input when you counter steer. Either slides not recovered with less angle or snapping to the other side for over correction.
In all, recovering unintended slide requires good amounts of training.

Also, now a days, front grips are getting better, means only rear will slide when front is biting. Uneven grip level between front and rear or front under rear over is the most scary setting for drifter. SF90 has this setup.

So, only practice is the answer for unintended slides.

And yes! SF90 is friendly car up to certain point. Beyond that, you are flying in a car that weighes alot with too much power. So the margin for correction with human input is ever so slim, just like is the case with heavy cars.
Also, your input is not well recieved by thw car because computer is governing most part even with everything off. It is scary thing to slide around.

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I’m with you to a point, however, what I know is that my counter-steer was about right with the car’s attitude immediately returning to straight (no over correction). However, due to the narrow road I still ended up on the other side which could have been extremely dangerous. Thankfully nothing was coming the other way. The part that was difficult was the speed with which the slide occurred. I have slid the SF90 on repeated occasions at speed with the car and tyres up to temperature and it handles very nicely, similar to a Speciale which can slide everywhere and usually in a nice way, such that you incorporate some small element of slip into most of your fast driving. I wouldn’t quite go that far with the SF90 due to its immense power but it feels very similar to the Speciale in its handling dynamics. Speciale is probably the Ferrari I know best.

What I think made the SF90 do what it did was the high instant torque it has with the electric motor in Q mode, plus Race mode and cold Cup 2 tyres. It’s this combination that allowed the wheels to spin up so instantly and with so much energy, at slow speed and on moist tarmac at 9 degrees C. I don’t think the Speciale would have done the same thing in Race mode with Cup 2s at 9 degrees and the same slow road speed. In fact I know it wouldn’t because that location is right next to my house and I have to drive it whenever I use our cars. It may have spun its wheels slightly (not even certain of that) but at a pace much more possible to control. There will be a reaction time difference between pro drivers and decent enthusiasts like me. Could a pro have achieved a better outcome than I did? Possibly, but even then I think it would have been a challenge, such was the power and speed of the rear movement. At slow speed it is also unexpected and this must contribute too, whether one is a pro or not.

I believe my conclusion is right; colder temperatures with SF90 on Cup 2s - use the modes until its properly warm and don’t underestimate this car or take it for granted in the same way you can a 458 or 488 to at least some degree.

 

agreed, my reaction times aren't what they were in my 20's though and are probably 50-75ms worse

 

I got slower too.
My driving has changed also. I became to prefer entry understeer so that I can prepare what comes next.

 

This is insightful. I agree on the amazeiale - it is such a wonderful car to drive, AND my wife loves it, so it is probably the best modern ferrari imo.

It's cold here in the snowy/rainy seattle area, and after many "frightening things" in the f12tdf in race mode in the rain, i have learned that i prefer to keep it in wet mode. Also I have only just barely touched qualify mode - mostly to charge the battery to full (for fun ofc).

The 350 miles I have put on it so far have been fantastic in these conditions tbh, even with the cup 2's. But I could imagine for sure how nasty it could get quickly if, in the cold someone delivered some massive electric power to the front in a slippery race mode style. I have only driven about 5 miles in Q mode so far and i was not able to get into it at all (since it was still wet mode). But I can imagine how nasty it could get, quickly. Thanks for sharing your experience, I hope not to have a slow-speed-disaster ever.

 

Well, guys I had a moment too!
It was uphill right corner with water on the surface.
Rear lost grip so fast.
I countered and car recovered and then traction control light flickered.
Qualifying with CT off 3-4 degree C.
I was laughing while cars on the other side lane got shocked. I knew because he or she nearly stopped the car.


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Well there was water. Those tires are worthless in the wet.

 

Hm, maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the fun part.

Driving in Qualifying mode, CT OFF, wet roads, and near freezing temps. The only thing I can call that is massively irresponsible. Had it not gone your way, rather than laughing at the people you shocked, you could have had a collision causing injuries to innocent bystanders. And not only could you have hit someone, the fact that you shocked someone could cause them to perform a dangerous and ynnessecary evasive manoeuvre.

I just don't understand this kind of disregard for other people and their safety.

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I can manage the car so no worries. I didn’t step out of my lane either. My reaction is pretty much automatic just like traction control or better.

It was rather unintended but can not avoid because the moment I turned to 90degree right I saw water on the surface.
I knew it would go sideway so I was ready at the same time but it did go off little bit more because of weight.
I recovered with no or little effort and wanted to extend slide but then traction came on and prevented me.

If one is late to react and rely on traction control, car would have steped out of lane for sure because computer is slower than ready driver.


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Oh and even wet mode can not prevent water planning on the surface of tire either. It is meant to go lose grip no matter what. To prevent this, simply don’t drive the car with wide tires and high torque.
Or no matter what setting, drive slowly.

I did drive slow for the weather compared to what I normaly do. And it is to each of its own I guess.

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One last thing. I have not laughed at the people near me. I was laughing for a joy of even unwanted slide.


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