Well I guess that's why Bosch cannot figure out how this is happening, so, gotta think outside the expected...
Yep. But it could be something really rare. Like maybe a bad batch of seals, or diaphragms that are not glued properly, or adhesive used that is dissolved by brake fluid, or a combination. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
Due to the volume of cars affected and the spread of model years it seems unlikely to be an isolated batch, probably a systemic design failure (like a poorly designed adhesive or other as you mention). Hopefully we will find out soon.
I added the Bosch motorsport abs to my gtb1 car to fix it. I had ice mode going into t1 at cota at the PCA race and almost took out another car/pissed myself. Best 10k I ever spent. It's all on camera, and it quickly became all about accident avoidance at that point. Gave up a podium spot over it too.
they recalled EVERY model year unless and until they figured it out. Whether isolated or systemic cannot be gleaned from that tidbit
If what was posted about the cap, is coming out and the truth, then I think it's great news and we can easily tell if our systems are compromised. IMO why would Ferrari put out a fake fix and subject themselves to endless amounts of law suits, etc, which would wind up costing way more than fixing the real issue at hand? A lot of you are questioning the initial recall message, so her it is below as a refresher.... Dear John, We wanted to inform you that Ferrari is investigating whether a problem exists in certain Model Year 2010-2015 458 vehicles. The vehicles involved are equipped with a braking system that could potentially leak brake fluid, which may lead to a total loss of braking capability, and result in an accident. We want to assure you that your safety is our priority, and we are committed to correcting this condition in your vehicle if it exists. Our records show that you are the owner of this vehicle. Ferrari is conducting further research to determine the root cause and possible scope of this problem. We will contact you as soon as we have further instructions for you. In the meantime, if a message appears on your dashboard, “Brake fluid level low, Go to dealer slowly”, please pull off the road as soon as it is safe to do so. Then contact Ferrari Roadside Assistance at 1.866.788.6760. Your car will be taken to the nearest authorized Ferrari dealer and inspected free of charge. If necessary, Ferrari will perform any necessary repairs to your vehicle for free. Note: The vehicle’s electric parking brake can be used as an emergency brake when the vehicle is in motion. See your Owner’s Manual for further information. If you have any questions, please contact your local authorized Ferrari dealer. You can find a listing of them at https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/dealers Sincerely, Ferrari North America, Inc. Aftersales Departmen
The prevalent speculation in this thread was that this recall was to fix the issue of brake fluid leaking from the master cylinder piston seals toward the booster, causing the brake pedal to go hard, but not properly slowing the car . If the remedy for this recall is to replace the brake fluid reservoir cap and modify the software for the brake fluid warning, then this recall has nothing to do with that problem. If that is a significant issue, Ferrari is not admitting it nor fixing it at this time. I do not see how a slightly leaky reservoir cap could “lead to a total loss of braking capability” as mentioned in the official recall letter. Even cornering and braking at 1G+ many times would probably only about half empty the reservoir and it would do it slowly. i would think that the low brake fluid warning would come on long before any loss of braking capability. Maybe the problem that they are fixing here is that the low brake fluid warning actually does not work at all and if there is a fluid leak (cap or elsewhere) the driver will not know until the brakes fail.
100% agreed with the above. When I lost complete braking ability, my car had zero brake fluid visible in the reservoir, even looking down into it with the cap off. All fluid leaked internal to the brake booster with no signs of leaked fluid any where external to the system. A new cap is not going to be a fix for this problem.
All I can say, as an attorney and 458 S owner, is I would find it truly incredible for a company like Ferrari to put out a fake fix to save dollars or face. Then you’re talking huge punitives if anyone gets hurt. Or even comes close.
the low brake fluid warning currently comes on at 48% fluid level i suspect the software update will have the low fluid warning at 10% or less i agree this solution does not correct the defect other than to give an earlier warning of the defect the cap replacement seems superfluous
Maybe we are all missing the point here! Who says that the cap is being replaced because it leaks?! In the most basic example, my 84' 911 Targa Brake cap needed replacement, because the location 2 little wires plugged into, was failing and giving a false brake light warnings on the dash. Maybe it's still the master cylinder issue, but this fix is a very early warning system, that will make us aware of an issue, way before failure. I think it's updated sensors in the new cap and w/ the complement of new software, we are afforded early warning.....
Yes, it is supposed to, but does it? Anyone here tested it? Maybe there is a software bug and it does not work as intended.
Excellent point. Maybe the low brake fluid warning is is not working as intended because the cap is defective, or maybe this is needed to make the level warning go off sooner. What is the natural thing that people are going to do when they get a low fluid warning? Take the car to the dealer for an expensive fix? Of course not. The natural thing to do will be to add a little fluid. Problem solved. Only those of us FChatters that are reading this thread will know better. If there is an issue with fluid leaking into the booster, tweaking the low fluid warning system is not a real fix.
The low brake light warning isn't going to fix the problem either. When I took delivery of my new-to-me car it had just had its annual service at Ferrari of Washington. With fresh brake fluid at normal level. And yet the first time I took it out on a spirited drive the brakes failed. When I removed the brake booster I found only a small coating of brake fluid inside. But it was enough to prevent the diaphragm from sealing properly. A brake fluid warning won't do anything to alleviate the problem. A revised master cylinder would.
They may not have enough data to provide the fix so the re-flash of the code is to collect that data and likely not just from the braking system. I would add an on-board diagnostic to the vehicle that collects all the information necessary to complete the diagnosis. Having all the re-programmed vehicles out there collecting data (temps, pressures, brake force, fluid levels, acceleration, etc.) will give them a giant test bed to continue debug. The bad part is that the updated ECU(s) code may not be fully tested and create future software glitches down the road. They also would use this opportunity to update other known bugs or emissions.
I’m cynical of this fluid cap fix. Doesn’t make sense that it fixes a hard pedal and diminished braking. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting, but the 458 brake reservoir cap has no sensor leads coming out of it. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
This will be good. Let's use our customers to test potentially unsafe cars. The lawyers will love that one.
Meanwhile, its the "customers" that are creating this narrative... I don't know anymore than owners do, but I also am not creating a narrative of doom. I've been tracking every 458/488 chassis that has come across the service drive since being asked to by "the powers that be", not one chassis has exhibited signs of fluid loss or any actual braking concern. I am not trying to minimize the reality of those few that have had a problem, its very real for them. However, none of us ( Ferrari / Owners / Bosch / Others ) have 100% isolated the cause of failure. Its not from a lack of trying, its a serious concern, everyone I know is taking it seriously. This is a forum, a platform for everyone to voice opinions, its strange how an opinion can become internet reality so quickly. Steve
Maybe the new one will. Maybe they are putting the sensor in the cap and ignoring the one that is in the reservoir. Probably not, but I guess it is possible. If the caps are passive, and not prone to leaking, then a new cap will be just cosmetic. Maybe it will have a warning on it that says do not add fluid. If the fluid is low, have your car transported to a Ferrari dealer and bring your Platinum Visa card. I was thinking about this, and I see this as problematic. With disk brakes, the fluid level will naturally drop as the pads wear. Normally much more than 10% of the reservoir fluid will be used to replace the volume of the worn pads. If the warning goes off with less than a 10% fluid drop, people will get used to just adding a little fluid now and then. If fluid is going into the booster, this will just make the situation worse because they will not suspect that there is a problem.
I myself am not claiming that there is a problem. I do not know if there is or not. I am just commenting on what others in this thread are saying. I will claim that if there is a problem with fluid leaking into the booster, replacing the reservoir cap and some software will not fix it. Maybe Ferrari is fixing a different problem with the cap and software.
Or...maybe the “leak into the booster” is an internet myth that has taken on a life of its own. It could be a rare occurrence that is a part failure and not a systemic problem requiring a recall whereas the other more common brake problem Ferrari is attempting to address is all about fluid leakage and low levels. Just a thought. If someone here knows with 100% certainty what the actual problem is then by all means tell us, and substantiate it with facts. This is starting to seem like a sewing circle...
If the real issue at hand, is actually the booster, than this is the first step in buying more time to fix the situation and saving our skins for now at the same time.
