car design thread

The 2 cars were @ 10 yrs apart, but the one certainly could have had an influence on the other.
That was an era when 'anything goes' and 'too much is never enough' reined supreme.

 

Chris Bangle talks about design & luxury

 

Takeway: "Blame the notorious Kardashian Butt design on Dresser!"

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The Breathtaking Cars Of Franco Scaglione

 

Stumbled across this 1950's Russian articulated, 8-wheeled, amphibious vehicle today. A rather novel and futuristic design for something that is apparently intended to be industrial. Enjoy!

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https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/331338-amphibious-8wheel-soviet-car

 

Liking this one a bit more....
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Almost exact copy of an early KurtisKraft.....

 

I just had a quick look at a few of the videos on the 'Roadster Life' page, and it looks like I'll be tied up until after New Years...

a couple to add to John's ' Cars of Franco Scaglione; this one on the relatively unknown Pio Manzù'
and this one to thank him for uncovering this page!

Grazie JM

 

Wow, thanks. Stratos Zero.
Coolest. Car. Ever.

 

If you really enjoy car design then you all need to find and buy a new(ish) book called: Porsche Unseen. It is a book highlighting 10 or so of the Porsche design studio exercises.

What becomes clear is the folllowing:

1.) Porsche has a design ethos/vision that is pretty darn consistent. Just about all of the cars can clearly be seen as a "Porsche"-well maybe not the van, but even it has Porsche DNA in it. And the most practical!

2.) Porsche has overtaken Ferrari in the design department. The cars in this book are far more integrated in looks than what is coming out of Ferrari these days. Ferrari has lost it's way to a degree, and it is hard to see much Ferrari DNA in a lot of the new cars. They seem to have surrendered to what I call "The Gran Turismo" effect, wherein the designs are extravagant and maybe at times bold but have little connection to the companies past.

I am really impressed with what Porsche has been doing and is continuing to do in styling.

Some images:


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Some more:
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And continuing on the above posts- enter the Cadillac Cien recreation...

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We suspect at least a few people out there have thought about a new Cadillac supercar ever since the C8 Corvette debuted. It wouldn't be the first time Cadillac offered a luxury performance machine with ties to the 'Vette, and who could forget the edgy Cadillac Cien mid-engine concept car from 2002? It seems like a new Corvette-based Caddy supercar would be a no-brainer, but alas, nothing is in the works.

The folks at Competition Carbon aren't interested in waiting any longer. Specializing in body kits for Corvettes, this aftermarket company is getting a bit more ambitious with a new project called the C120R. The bones of this proposed supercar are still that of a C8 Corvette, but the body is all new. In an announcement posted to Instagram back in November, the company revealed a head-on image while specifically referencing the Cadillac Cien as the inspiration for its design. In subsequent posts, Competition Carbon even says production Cadillac taillights are used.

https://www.motor1.com/news/557551/competition-carbon-c120r-corvette-cadillac/?utm_source=US%20Motor1%20Insider%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20211229_M1_InsiderNL_230&_kx=KJSsZqYREzaS0-eKceGxdPAd8n-ERLVXDDGiLMjiQGM%3D.QWPKxN

 

Not even close.

 

One of my designer friends posted this on his FB page.
Never considered the familiarity.
"Looking at this great comparison photo of the GTO and the first, and only US build of the Daytona Coupe (and most widely raced), I am dissapointed in all the documentation that Pete Brock created this shape based on old pre war GERMAN aero studies that predicted the low drag benifits of the chopped off tapering rear bodywork. No mention ever seemed to be made of the GTO that was developed by Bizzarini two years before and raced at LeMans.
As a car designer myself (started at GM shortly after Brock left) I always wanted to believe in the story that claimed the old German research bacground that resulted in this landmark design."
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Not knowing the actual dimensions; I wonder how close you could get a line for line Cien on the C8 wheelbase and platform? It doesn't look like golf clubs space was a Cien design consideration as it looks more 'R8 V10' sized but with an extra 2 cylinders.

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That car was done a long time ago. 10 + yrs. Before C8.
I'm sure if Cadillac is interested in a mid-engined car, they'll come up with a new design.

 

Uhhhh ok, Monza, Roma, 296 GTB, no historic ties? Some models they went out on a limb, 812, SF90, however they’re clearly in touch with the past in a good way.

 

Monza maybe but the others do not show the same level of common design DNA that the Porsche ones do.

I mean look at the 917 redo. So much better than anything Ferrari has come up with.

And the 906 redo is just a class apart from anything Ferrari has done.

I have normally not been a big Porsche fan, never owned one and preferred Ferrari.

But Ferrari has lost its way, its “DNA” over the last number of years. Most of there new designs are either awkward or “Gran Turismo” wannabes.

Porsche is showing the future with cars like the Mission R car, maybe the most significant new sports car concept of past 10 years, with the 918.

Ferrari is just trying too hard to top its past works and as a result have no balance, no flow or continuity to them. Most will not be considered memorable or beautiful cars like the P3/P4, the Dino, Daytona or 250 SWB cars.

Do you think any current (past 10 year) Ferrari will be considered a design standout in 50 years like the cars above? None of them have any design longevity to them.

But hey, why worry, it’s only an overpriced car. (Same for Porsche).

 

Respectfully disagree. Ferrari has multiple modern classics. Your blanket statement simply isn’t accurate and doesn’t apply to ALL Ferrari models.

 

It's okay to be supportive of your passion/love of Ferrari. But that doesn't change the fact that they have not done a set of cars that match the level of design that they did in the past. What "modern" classic would you suggest will be as popular and well received/critiqued in 50 years as a 250 SWB is today? I cannot think of one that will be remembered in 50 years in that way.

Be honest about it. It's okay to be critical of Ferrari and what they do. Even on F-Chat.

 

Its like being critical of Ferrari F1. Its okay and they are not always that great a team-now are they?

Ferrari has won about 240 races over 70 years. So 3.4 races per year.
McLaren has won 183 over 54 years. So 3.4 races per year.
Mercedes has won 124 over 13 years. So 9.5 races per year.

Makes Ferrari and McLaren not even in the hunt.....

But again, just a bunch of pointless, expensive racecars going around in circles.

But nothing wrong in that. Hey Its what i do for a living-but at least I understand the landscape.

 

OK. Your agenda is clear.

 

Dude--Agenda??? I own two Ferrari right now, have owned various Ferrari since 1986, so that is a long time. I like my Ferrari but I am not so blind as to assume they make no mistakes. They are not, by far, the best car mfg or race car team that has ever been. They are good, Enzo created an iconic brand and some very classic cars. No one is denying that. But I do not put them on a pedestal to be worshiped at the alter.

I am sorry if I have burst your mythology about these cars. But they are not anything very, very special, nothing so grand or better than a lot of other cars that have been made over the years. They are an assembly of mechanical and electrical parts, wrapped up in a sheetmetal covering. But no more....

And I notice you actually didn't try to even answer the question asked. So try again:

What "modern" classic would you suggest will be as popular and well received/critiqued in 50 years as a 250 SWB is today? I cannot think of one that will be remembered in 50 years in that way.

Go ahead, try, the effort shouldn't be that hard, but the answer seems to elude you.

 

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Over the past 15 years Porsche has produced these 15 "exercises" which have been swept into a closet while they continue to produce one sports car and it's irrelevant little brother (even if the Boxster/Cayman is the better car) (You can practically count the number of street Porsche's on your fingers (356, 550, 904, 906, 911, 914, 924, 944(968), 959, 928, Boxster, Carrera GT, Cayman, 918) In those same 15 years Ferrari has produced easily that many production sports cars, and just like in the 60's and 70's etc., not all of them will prove to be iconic, but some of them will (458 for sure, maybe LaFerrari, SF90?). In fifty years how many 911's will be iconic?

Porsche does have a storied race car history, with plenty of iconic designs, but they are unrelated to their street car designs.

Now I am more than happy to criticize Ferrari's design directions of late, the "regular" 12 cylinder cars have been lost for a long (long, long) time, but suggesting that Porsche is out designing them by showing a mish mash of old concepts doesn't hold water with me.

 

Fair enough. All of this is called 'Opinion".

And as i have said in the past: Ferrari is a nice decent car company.

Porsche is an engineering company that makes cars.

 

And the 458 Speciale may be the one stand out that Ferrari has done over the past 10-25 years. La Ferrari, no-SF90 definitely no. Both are way too derivative in design.

And yea the 911 is an old concept developed to near perfection. But it has won LeMans more times than any other car. Must be doing something right.

Look, as I said I am no Porsche lover, never owned one. But it just seems Porsche has things more integrated and together than Ferrrai right now. I blame part (a lot) of it on breaking off from Pinifarina in 2011-when Ferrari started their own design house-Centro Stile Ferrari-and the La Ferrari was their first effort. Since then Ferrari seems to have lost the concept of design continuity, swing one way then another.

Car styling requires a dictator, not committee think. May result in some failures but genius does not come from group think.