Long term what do you think will be the better investment: 458 spider or F12?

FWIW and I am by no means an expert - While I am partial to the 458 Spider (I own one ) and think pretty much any Ferrari that was designed by Pininfarina and normally-aspirated will at least be stable and most likely appreciate some - I would say the F12. Historically big-boy front-engine NA V-12s did well and represented "Ferrari" at it's core even to the old-school Tifosi and the F12 (as you know) is the last of that breed.

Obviously it is a matter of taste as some think the 599 was "prettier" and the F12s have a rep for being "too fast" and "skiddish" (mostly thanks to Mr Clarkson) - and some think the front end of the Porto looks like a mini-F12 which reduces value/prestige (much like the front ends of the early Boxsters looked identical to the 996-series 911's thus reducing appeal of the 911s) but this is all about taste and aesthetics.

I sincerely doubt either will end up being a retirement plan simply due to build numbers and availability but as you stated that is not what you are expecting. Now there is the top-down aspect of the 458 Spider which depending on climate and usage could tip the scales but overall I would say the F12. Plus, they can be had for what I consider to be very reasonable prices currently so perhaps a good time to snap one up.

Again, must my 2 cents - You can't go wrong with either IMHO - Cheers

 

F12 was the last PF-designed front-engine V12 and 458 was the last PF-designed mid-engine V8 - Happy to stand corrected if I am mistaken but 99.9999% sure -

Cheers

 

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall a new one around the late 70's or very early 80's were about $70,000 new.

 

The window sticker for my 95 F355GTS was $132K - Prices dipped on 355s due to the costly majors and valve guide mania. Now they are starting to creep back up for a myriad of reasons - looks/gated manual (early cars only manuals / later cars introduced F1 as option)/sound/driving experience/relatively rare (especially GTSs) - There is a lot of chatter in the 355 Forum showing 355s trending upward - BUT if you had bought a new 355 in 1995 and kept it and maintained it you would have lost money - even if they jump up into the 6-figure+ category. That said, spending $132K and ending up with something worth around $100k is not bad - Especially considering depreciation of marques like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Bentley etc.

As many others have stated and I 1000% concur with - Buy what makes you happy now and makes your heart flutter every time you see it/start it/drive it/detail it/put gas in it etc. and while I respect your future-thinking position neither is a sure bet and at the rate we are going we will all be reading newspapers in pathetic autonomous conveyances down the road so enjoy while you can.

Cheers and good luck

 

I think u are right. My uncle was deciding between a new 308gtb vs a lancia stratos at the time for around 70-80k and went for the 308. He still has the 308 and loves it, but another example of how it’s hard to predict future values.

 

1978 308 GTS window sticker….. same place my 78 308GTS came from
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In 1986 328 was in low $60's.

 

IMO, any car that is loaded up with fancy electronics are not going to age well. 40 years from now either car will be nothing but a pretty looking boat anchor.

If you want to leave him a car that might still be worth big bucks in 40 years, I think you should choose an analog Ferrari that is already a classic, such as a 275 GTB, 250 GT Lusso, 365 GTB/4 Daytona or something along those lines. Those will be legendary even if they can't be driven due to unavailability of fuel. Even a 308/328 might do well because of their iconic nature. All those cars are mostly mechanical and can be maintained and rebuilt as long as steel and machine shops are still around.

Are you sure your son will want an F12 or 458 in 40 years? Betcha he'll turn around and sell it as soon as he gets it for whatever measly value it might have, and use the money to buy whatever whiz-bang electric Toyota is available by then.

I'll bet he'd rather get money than a car. Set up a trust and put 250k in stocks in it. In 40 years it'll be worth 5 or 6 million.

 

12 cylinder for sure. But in the long run the most important thing is to get what you like. Life is short . . . .

 

Both will appreciate in nominal terms due to the continued and never ending expansion of the money supply. In real terms you won’t make money most likely. The rate of monetary expansion the last decade has been around 14% which is the rate of return for the S&P500 so whichever car you buy that’s not a limited production car will not appreciate at that rate.

So, in my view buy what you like and if values go up faster than the rate of monetary inflation then that’s a bonus. I own the F12 and to me it’s the best balance of performance, looks, reliability, comfort and usability. I can plow around town like I’m in a Camry and then I mash the throttle and **** my pants from excitement and/or fear. The 812 is a better car but I think it has pedestrian looks compared to the F12. I could have had either but I couldn’t talk myself into the 812 just on the looks alone.

Mid engined V8’s are always going to be more desirable for most people looking to own an exotic but there will always be a market for the front engine V12, just a smaller pool of buyers.

As of right now the F12 is undervalued in my opinion and it’s the best exotic you can get for the money. F12 prices have increased slightly but not nearly as much as 458’s so they have some catch up to do.

Just my 2 cents


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Hey, it was over 40 years ago, a guy can't remember everything!

 

Reminds me of the old joke where a guy went into a coma for 50 years. When he came out of it, he called his broker to see how much his $100K stock account was worth. The broker told him it was now worth $20 million. Before the man could celebrate, the operator came on and said, "That will be $50 million for the next 3 minutes"!

 

Can’t argue with that! I must have confused with what he paid for his Dino later on. He did tell me that the stratos and 308 were pretty much the same money back then so it was a tough decision for him

 

I had both concurrently. While the 458 is just fantastic, the F12 is.... special.

For a reference, Chris Harris said the F12 is the best, or one of the best, cars Ferrari has ever made- high praise indeed.

Mike

 

If you buy either one because that’s what you want, either will make you happy. If you buy either one as an investment? Sorry, but your destined for failure. We are in what is the hottest used car market ever! Your more than likely buying at a peak, the opposite of good investing. I doubt that either car will keep up with inflation over 40 years especially with maintenance registration insurance etc... buy a rental property and you’ll double your money every 5-7 years. After 40 years your kid can buy just about any car he wants...
just my two cents...

 

Cars as investment? Nahhh! Only if you are very lucky and hold on to it long enough there is a chance a future generation will find it desirable.
Consider buying some Ferrari stock for your children-you may find it appreciating more than any car you can buy particularly if Tesla, Rivian or Rimac buys them out!


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In for trouble if you need the appreciation thing to justify buying what you want to your wife. That said, there is 100% certainty that the roof on that spider will be leaking and either frozen open or closed in 20 years from now!

And the 812 coming after the F12 is a selling point for the F12.

 

To me, the difference is how the cars drive on the open roads. It is hard to beat the torque of a V12.

 

So I assume by now we've shot down his plan. Score one for the wife.

 

Well, if you just have to do it....get the F12, for sure.

 

$181,906 in today's dollars. A moderately optioned 296 is going to push $400k.

"$1 in 1978 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $4.26 today, an increase of $3.26 over 44 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.35% per year between 1978 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 326.30%."

 

Any time I see the words' newer Ferrari' and the word 'investment' I check out.

 

There are, but you have to be on The List.

And I don't think anyone getting Icona or Special Projects models is coming to us for advice!