355 F355 Stuttering

Thanks. I'm nothing if not persistent .

My local Ferrari garage is open again tomorrow so I'm going to go have a chat with them. Hopefully they can get it in before the warranty runs out in a couple of weeks.

 

1st, you have the original 355 header ... = bad.
2nd, in that area there are possible oil leaks from the valve cover gasket, cam seals, and the big fat red oil line in the picture. You should find out what that is.

 

Ooh, what does "bad" mean?

 

Bad means they tend to have holes in them after a while and then they run poorly after that. If ignored for a while, the engine needs rebuild.

 

Ah, very bad! Suggestions for replacements?

 

This is a topic that has been discussed ad infinitum. Search and you will find many threads to answer your question. Lots of good alternatives.

 

Got lucky with my local Ferrari garage and they're collecting the car within the next hour or so. Should have a proper diagnostic by the end of today.

 

We have a verbal diagnosis from the garage...

Spark plug on cylinder 7 was dud, and the coil pack on bank 2 was iffy. All replaced.
Spark plug on cylinder 4 was filled with oil which was dripping through the cam cover gasket (I think).

Warranty company has paid for the coil pack, but I think the spark plugs are "consumables" and so they'll be at my cost. Warranty company also only pays up to £60 ph towards labour, so looking at 9 hours of work and £1800 to replace the gasket. However, garage mentioned that the gasket doesn't look particularly old, just maybe not fitted very well. Just checked my paper work and the most recent major service looks like it included that work back in July 2021. So, hoping to be able to get the previous garage to cover the costs.

Garage did also seem to suggest that for that amount of labour I might as well let them take the engine out and even do the belts again.

As always, I'd love your thoughts on this please.

 

Wow cam cover gasket can be done in car without much difficulty, its not pleasant but its not impossible. They charge that much for cam cover gasket and the same price to pull the motor and do belts?

The coil packs and ignition modules are old and they are cheap to find new if you use the Bosch part number not the Ferrari number. Those are also consumable items not intended to last 30 years. Replace them all, well that's what I did.

 

Progress - your post is not clear but surely if the warranty is contributing to the gasket your cost is incorrect based on them paying about 50 % of the 9 hours

Can you remind us of the age of the belts if they are suggesting replacing as this can become a very large bill

 

I'll have the email in the morning with all the actual figures. Pretty sure they said their hourly was £155 though.

 

Hi, Sorry for the delay responding ,
If you strip the insulation from the main plug back toward the engine there are 3 or 4 groups of wires . 3 or 4 wires crimped together.
Solder these joints & re seal the harness.
It has worked for me several times .

 

The Ferrari Factory time book says 1.4 to 1.6 hrs for replacing the Cam Cover gaskets , with the Engine still in the car ?

 

This is post number 2, first page. Did you not do any of this?

 

I started doing some, yes. I got the red cover off bank 2, and unplugged the wires. I'd checked the port for water etc, but the oil problem was on bank 1. I bought one of the flashing spark plug testers, but it wasn't long enough to connect to the plug! I then refocused to getting the diagnostics working so that it might save some time by helping me focus in on the problem. Don't know how to check the fuel pressure .

 

OK, I've now got a proper estimate from them, as follows...

• 8 spark plugs @ £24.39 each + 2.5 hours @ £155
• New coil pack @ £136.33 + 1 hour @ £155
• Supply & fit R/H & L/H cam cover gaskets 9 hours @ £155

Total parts: £430.56
Total labour: £2344.99

Then we need to add VAT to everything, bringing a grand total of £3330.66 (this also includes recovery of the car and the initial 1.5 hours investigations).

@sal123 do you think the gasket work should take less than 2 hours?

Other things they mentioned...

"If you would like for us to replace the cambelts, which involves the removal of the engine, which would make the cam cover repair easier to access, you should budget for an additional £1200.00 inclusive of VAT. "

"We would strongly suggest that the brake cooling pipes are replaced, which is £383.37 inclusive for both pipes."

"In addition, if you wished, whilst we have the cam covers off, we can ripple paint them back to factory red quality, to perform this is £540.00 inclusive of VAT, and to attend to sticky buttons etc is £495.00 inc of VAT"

The latest major service was done at end of July '21 (less than 6 months ago), during which they did...

• Fit cambelts / belt tensioner.bearing/ w.pump bearing (4 hours)
• Replace cam seals, rocker gaskets, various oil leaks washers (8 hours)
• Remove / fit engine (6 hours)

Am I correct in thinking that the thing that has now failed (cam cover gaskets) was part of that service in July? i.e. are "cam cover gaskets" the same as "cam seals" or "rocker gaskets"?

Thanks all

 

If this is the same shop that did the belt service in July, they NEED to warranty their work on the cam cover gasket and replace that for FREE.

I would pay them only for the spark plugs and new labor to remove them and replace them. Their time estimate is a little high but oh well. This is also why you replace the spark plugs when you do the major. You just wasted days of not driving the car and pulling your hair out because the spark plugs did not get replaced at the belt service in July. This is what happens when you wait for things to break, instead of replacing them as maintenance items before they break.

For comparison: I (and likely others on this site) can pull the valve covers, spark plugs, coils and replace them all within one day of work (8 hours) with the engine in the car.

Book rate is probably less than 8 hours.

 

Upcharge for the engine out belt change seems very low compared to the rest of the work being quoted. Decimal place incorrect? Theres a lot of labor in that.

 

Hiya. This is a different garage to the one that did the belt in July. I'm just awaiting a bit more info from the current garage before I approach the previous garage. Once I'm happy that the previous garage has something answer for, I can discuss options with them. They might want to have it back to do the work themselves, but not sure whether I should insist they pay the current garage to do the work? Regarding the spark plug, I think it might have been coil pack at fault. Presumably they want to replace them all either because a) like you say, its' a good precautionary step or b) because the oil in #4 damaged that plug?

 

Do you think it might be worth doing the belts as well? It would "only" get me an extra 6 months until the next one's due.

 

Appears to me they don't want to do the engine in gasket replacement so they overcharge that labor fee and undercharge the engine out labor to get you to move in that direction. Just a thought but I've seen shops do similar things over the years.

 

Not necessarily just stating it doesn't make sense as in abnormally low relative to the effort involved. Especially when taking their other quotes into consideration.

Were tensioners and tensioner bearings addressed ever? That may be reason to do deeper exploratory surgery.

I'd get the car running correctly before dropping the cradle unless the cause was something that required it. Thats me though and I'd be doing the work on my own time not in someone elses book time clock. They have the car so to a degree you're at their mercy. I doubt the other shop will compensate another shop for warranty work. He said she said situation.

 

Fully agree.. its an easy decision to just go all in for a minor upcharge. Still it may be low all in here. Then you get it out realize its more and you're stuck with an even larger unexpected cost to get it back together on the road. Just spit balling.

Never know sometimes you get a shop or tech that has learned how to skin the cat better and they are very efficient time wise shaving hours off a job relative to book time.

 

Safe to assume a day to drop engine and a day to refit. So you're 2 days labor minimum not including consumables like the fluids needed which add up. Then any labor and materials while its out. Thats a good common sense reference to use.

 

For reference, this is the work that was carried out during the major service in July. I'm not sure which, if either of "Cam cover seals set" or "Rocker cover gaskets set" relates to "Cam cover gaskets" on the new estimate?
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