430 - CCM calipers | Page 2 | FerrariChat

430 CCM calipers

Discussion in '360/430' started by mike32, Dec 10, 2021.

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  1. Fenz

    Fenz Karting

    Nov 8, 2018
    169
    Team Europe
    Is it really a good idea to use stainless pistons together with an aluminum caliper?
    Risk of galvanic corrosion?
    Thermal expansion of the stainless pistons?

    Thoughts?

    Mark, did you machine your own pistons? What material?
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    They are made by hill engineering and well proven. Lots of pistons are chromed mild steel
     
  3. Fenz

    Fenz Karting

    Nov 8, 2018
    169
    Team Europe
    Question still stands.
    I'm aware that the question is probably too advanced for this forum, but I'm still interested in the facts, if anyone has any sensible facts to come up with regarding calipers. Stainless steel thermal expansion is higher than ordinary steel. Maybe it's a problem, maybe it's not a problem.
     
  4. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,641
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    No risk: there isn't metal-to-metal contact. The pistons are isolated from the calliper by the seal and submerged in bath of brake fluid. Stainless pistons in aluminium calipers isn't something new that we are trying here.

    I had someone else machine a full set for £80. I polished them to a mirror finish before fitting.
     
  5. Fenz

    Fenz Karting

    Nov 8, 2018
    169
    Team Europe
    Thanks.
    Did you make them exactly as OEM, or modified in dimension for possible thermal expansion?
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    £80 for one caliper i assume, did u have any problems fitting the cap with the cooling holes.
     
  7. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Ferrari only have one option if the pistons are corroded and that is to buy new calipers, they dont sell spare pistons.
    It does not give Brembo a good name as the pistons are very poor, to be corroding like this- interesting point is they corrode in way of the dust seal and not the oil seal. There is no point in trying to polish the corrosion out as the aluminum comes away in sheets once you try to do so.
     
  8. Fenz

    Fenz Karting

    Nov 8, 2018
    169
    Team Europe
    Yes, I'm aware of the Brembo Ferrari facts, I've talked to Brembo about it and they didn't want to talk about it. :)
    Just had the thoughts about Hill stainless, as it will be more thermal expansion when getting hot (=tough driving, track use etc), if they had that under consideration and compensated for it it any way with other dimensions.
     
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,641
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Both Mike, 12 pistons. I don't run the caps.
     
  10. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,641
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    OEM
     
    Fenz likes this.
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Had your small pistons corroded and seized like mine. Had a right job getting them out as solid
     
  12. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,641
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I can't remember if it was the small ones - it possibly was. It was a real game trying to get some of them out. I think I was at 11bar on the air line, and it took several attempts at shutting off & turning on the air abruptly before they would budge. I should imagine that there are quite a few cars out there with the problem.
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Did u see my grease gun method to get them out
     
    Rifledriver likes this.
  14. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,641
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I did - I will try that next time. I also like the dummy pistons that you had machined to block off the empty bores.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,054
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Corvettes have been using aftermarket stainless steel pistons for decades with no problems after the originals corroded. I helped my father fit a set back in the 70s. Lots of clearance and, like somebody said, in a brake fluid bath.
     
    mwstewart likes this.
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    The teflon top hats can be borrowed if you get stuck, saves making them. You just need a handful of clamps from screwfix to hold in place. I also have the m10x1 to 1/8 bsp adaptor to go grease gun to caliper
     
    mwstewart likes this.
  17. Penzinger

    Penzinger Karting

    Jul 13, 2019
    135
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Heinz
    Since the coefficient of thermal expansion (a in 10−6 K − 1) with aluminum (23.1) is much higher than with steel (11-13), there should be no problems. Aluminum expands more than steel!
     
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  18. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,302
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
  19. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    You really don't need to worry with Hills Engineering parts. They are are very experienced, rigorous and meticulous engineering company, if they design a part they will not bring it to market with issues . Their whole ethos is "Better than OEM". I've never fitted any HE parts on my 360 which I've had a problem with, period!
     
    eric355, clean512 and Rifledriver like this.
  20. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    These are the ones which were not corroded, so thats half of the total 20 pistons. Might be useful to someone. Anyone know how to access the classified parts for sale section, cannot find how to submit an add
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Eric in Chicago

    Eric in Chicago Karting

    Jul 2, 2021
    172
    Full Name:
    Eric
    What are you asking for them?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  22. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    For now I will see if i can find someone in uk who might be interested as shipping from Isle of Man, to international is making life hard
     
    Eric in Chicago likes this.
  23. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Out of interest how many of your pistons were corroded or seized. 3 out of 4 of the small 30 mm fronts were buggered, then some of the middle front pistons, the front calipers were worse than the rears. Do you have some pics of the damaged ones
     
  24. JAMES MANSFIELD

    Feb 1, 2018
    37
    Full Name:
    JAMES MANSFIELD
    Is there anyone you can recommend that will do the rebuild if I send the calipers in?
     
  25. Andrie

    Andrie Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2015
    720
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Andrie Hartanto
    Just FYI, brembo and other brake manufacturers offers stainless piston or titanium. Vented and non. Stainless transfer less heat, and titanium even better. This is very common on race calipers. You can actually order this from brembo for their calipers. Maybe you have to source it from their Motorsport division. The only downside if you do the race/Motorsport route they are not made to accept dust boot. As those melted the first lap you hit the track anyway.
     

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